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BW Legal (NCP) Letter of Claim

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  • Rudixx
    Rudixx Posts: 35 Forumite
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    Here is their response to the email I sent.
    Thank you for your email, the contents of which have been noted on file.



    Please find attached a copy of the Notice to Keeper which Our Client issued to you as requested.
    As established members of the British Parking Association, Our Client adheres to their Code of Practice for Private Enforcement on Private Land and Unregulated Car Parks ('Code of Practice'). This Code of Practice gives recommendations in regards to the signage within the Car Park. The signs within the car park comply with the recommendations in the Code of Practice and are therefore deemed reasonable.
    Please be aware that the contract between Our Client and the landowner is a legally privileged document which you have no right to inspect. However, should this matter progress to court, the contract will be adduced as evidence.



    · The driver of the vehicle contravened the rules of parking at the site by breaching the site’s Terms and Conditions, as the vehicle was parked without payment of the parking charge

    · Our Client is pursuing you as the registered keeper of the vehicle.

    · Our Client has followed the rules laid out and intends to rely on Schedule 4 of Protection of Freedoms Act 2012.

    · The signage in situ makes provision for our client to recover any additional costs (Contractual Costs) incurred by them in relation to the PCN. The Contractual Costs referred to above formed part of the terms and conditions (of the parking contract) which were accepted by you in the course of staying at the Car Park. Save for the fact that the sum of £60.00 attributable towards these costs are entirely reasonable for nature and type of work involved in recovering the parking charge, such costs are recoverable under the relevant parking code of practice.



    Should you wish to discuss this matter further, please contact our office on 0113 487 0432



    Kind Regards,



    bwlegal
  • Coupon-mad
    Coupon-mad Posts: 131,690 Forumite
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    Send them your Google timeline next, and make them chew on it! State that clearly the ANPR cameras are out on timing as you were not there for over ten minutes.

    Give them permission to revert to their client to consider this evidence that you will use in court, which a is a true timeline far more accurate than two separate ANPR cameras/timers.

    Let them scratch their heads and work it out, even if you think it's not very clear...make them wonder. Eleven minutes is made up and you need to throw mud at them as this claim is totally fanciful, a typical scam PCN issued within the BPA Grace Period, and the suggestion that the car was there 11 minutes is without merit. Say so.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
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    Forum Home»Motoring»Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
  • Rudixx
    Rudixx Posts: 35 Forumite
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    If I send them my google timeline will this not mean I admit to be the driver?
  • KeithP
    KeithP Posts: 37,640 Forumite
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    edited 4 December 2018 at 8:15PM
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    Rudixx wrote: »
    If I send them my google timeline will this not mean I admit to be the driver?
    Only if you send your Google timeline.

    Why not send them the Google timeline of the driver?
  • Rudixx
    Rudixx Posts: 35 Forumite
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    Hi,

    Here is BWL's response.
    Good Afternoon

    Thank you for your recent email, the contents of which have been noted on file.

    The correspondence issued by Our Client gave you, the Registered Keeper, the opportunity to name the driver of the vehicle on the date of the contravention. The correspondence warned that should this information not be forthcoming within 28 days of the date on the letter, and payment not have been made, they had the right to recover the Outstanding Balance feom you under Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012.

    The Registered Keeper is liable for the sum of £100.00 as stated on the Notice to Keeper. As this matter has been passed to us, you are also liable for our £60.00 instructions fee. The signage in situ makes provision for Our Client to recover any additional costs (Contractual Costs) incurred by them in relation to the Parking Charge Notice. The Contractual Costs referred to above formed part of the Terms and Conditions (of the parking contract) which were accepted by you in the course of staying at the car park. Save for the fact that the sum of £60.00 attributable towards these costs are entirely reasonable for nature and type of work involved in recovering the parking charge, such costs are recoverable under the relevant parking code of practice.

    We appreciate that it may not always be convenient to call us, therefore why not review your account online by visiting our website https://www.bwlegal.co.uk to set up your account online. Our Customer Portal provides you with the functionality to speak to us by webchat, complete your income and expenditure, make a payment or set up an affordable payment plan at your convenience.

    Should you have any further queries please contact our office on 0113 487 0432.

    Kind Regards,
    bwlegal
  • Rudixx
    Rudixx Posts: 35 Forumite
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    Good morning everyone, I hope all of you had a lovely Christmas with your families and you received some nice gifts.

    This Christmas I've got my very first ever Claim Form followed by a letter from BWL. I've registered on moneyclaim.gov.uk and I am able to view my claim there but I did not select any action yet before I ask for your advice. Since the claim issue date is 20th of December and it's already 31st shall I start AOS to buy some more time or would it have negative impact on my case?

    What happens if I select 'start defence'? Will I need to put my defence in there straight away?
  • KeithP
    KeithP Posts: 37,640 Forumite
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    From you post earlier today, it looks like you are yet to read post #2 of the NEWBIES FAQ sticky thread. You really must read that now as you appear to be at great risk of doing the wrong thing.

    Rudixx wrote: »
    Since the claim issue date is 20th of December...
    With a Claim Issue Date of 20th December, you have until Tuesday 8th January to do the Acknowledgement of Service, but there is nothing to be gained by delaying it. To do the AoS, follow the guidance offered in a Dropbox link from post #2 of the NEWBIES FAQ sticky thread.

    Having done the AoS, you then have until 4pm on Tuesday 22nd January 2019 to file your Defence.

    That's over three weeks away. Loads of time to produce a perfect Defence, but don't leave it to the very last minute.


    When you are happy with the content, your Defence should be filed via email as suggested here:
      Print your Defence.
    1. Sign it and date it.
    2. Scan the signed document back in and save it as a pdf.
    3. Send that pdf as an email attachment to CCBCAQ@Justice.gov.uk
    4. Just put the claim number and the word Defence in the email title, and in the body of the email something like 'Please find my Defence attached'.
    5. Log into MCOL after a few days to see if the Claim is marked "defended". If not chase the CCBC until it is.
    6. Do not be surprised to receive a copy of the Claimant's Directions Questionnaire, they are just trying to put you under pressure.
    7. Wait for your DQ from the CCBC, or download one from the internet, and then re-read post #2 of the NEWBIES FAQ sticky thread to find out exactly what to do with it.
  • Rudixx
    Rudixx Posts: 35 Forumite
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    I acknowledged of service.
    Particular of Claim:
    The Claimant's Claim is for the sum of £242.88 being monies due from the Defendant to the Claimant in respect of Parking Charge Notice (PCN) for a parking contravention which occurred on 00/06/2018 in the private car park/land located at xxx xxx xx in relation to a vehicle, xxxxx xxxx xxx registration mark xxxxxx.
    The Defendant was allowed 28 days from the PCN Date to pay the PCN, but failed to do so.
    Despite demand having been made, the Defendant has failed to settle their outstanding liability.
    The Claim also includes Statutory Interest pursuant to section 69 of the County Courts Act 1984 at a rate of 8% per annum (a daily rate of £0.04 from 00/06/2018 to 00/12/2018 being an amount of £7.xx.
    The Claimant's claiim includes £60.00 costs as set out in the Terms and Conditions.

    The points for my defence are:
    1. The driver left the site without payment therefore no breach was made.
    2. There is no maximum grace period set by BPA therefore 11 minutes 29 seconds was reasonable.
    3. ANPR cameras may be couple minutes of out sync (proof?)

    Draft of Defence
    IN THE COUNTY COURT
    CLAIM No: xxxxxxxx

    BETWEEN:
    National Car Parks Limited (Claimant)

    -and-

    My name (Defendant)

    DEFENCE

    1. The Defendant is the registered keeper of the vehicle in question. The Claim relates to an alleged debt in damages arising from a driver's alleged breach of contract, when parking at xxxxxxxx private car park on xx/xx/xxxx.

    1.1. Any breach is denied, and it is further denied that there was any agreement to pay the Claimant's £100 'Parking Charge Notice ('PCN')'.

    2. The allegation appears to be based on images by their ANPR camera at the entrance and exit to the site. This is merely an image of the vehicle in transit, entering and leaving the car park in question and is not evidence of the registered keeper 'not purchasing the appropriate parking time'.

    3. According to the ANPR photographs provided by the Claimant, Defendant’s vehicle left the site without payment after 11 minutes and 29 seconds.

    3.1. At the material time, the Claimant operated strictly subject to the British Parking Association ('BPA') CoP, which said: Grace Period:

    13.4 You should allow the driver a reasonable period to leave the private car park after the parking contract has ended, before you take enforcement action. If the location is one where parking is normally permitted, the Grace Period at the end of the parking period should be a minimum of 10 minutes.

    3.2 The driver did not accept the offer and has left the site therefore no breach was made.

    4. The Claimant’s Claims for the sum of £242.88 seems to be extremely high considering POFA4 (5) which said: Right to claim unpaid parking charges from keeper of vehicle

    (5)The maximum sum which may be recovered from the keeper by virtue of the right conferred by this paragraph is the amount specified in the notice to keeper under paragraph 8(2)(c) or (d) or, as the case may be, 9(2)(d) (less any payments towards the unpaid parking charges which are received after the time so specified).

    I believe that the facts stated in this defence are true.
  • Rudixx
    Rudixx Posts: 35 Forumite
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    Can someone please review my defence and advise if it's good to go?

    IN THE COUNTY COURT
    CLAIM No: xxxxxxxx

    BETWEEN:
    National Car Parks Limited (Claimant)

    -and-

    My name (Defendant)

    DEFENCE

    1. The Defendant is the registered keeper of the vehicle in question. The Claim relates to an alleged debt in damages arising from a driver's alleged breach of contract, when parking at xxxxxxxx private car park on xx/xx/xxxx.

    1.1. Any breach is denied, and it is further denied that there was any agreement to pay the Claimant's £100 'Parking Charge Notice ('PCN')'.

    2. The allegation appears to be based on images by their ANPR camera at the entrance and exit to the site. This is merely an image of the vehicle in transit, entering and leaving the car park in question and is not evidence of the registered keeper 'not purchasing the appropriate parking time'.

    3. According to the ANPR photographs provided by the Claimant, the Defendant’s vehicle seems to be claimed to have been captured at the exit after a mere 11 minutes and 29 seconds on site. Not only is this very short period considered to be de minimis, given the time of year/conditions in the car park, the Defendant further contends that the entry/exit cameras are separate and operate their own timings, with no synchronisation. It is contended that the car was actually parked for under ten minutes, and left the site within a reasonable grace period without accepting any contract to park and leave the vehicle. The Claimant is put to strict proof of their skewed timings, not just by producing ANPR system records from each camera but also being put to strict proof that the system clocks/timers were operating exactly in synch on the material date.

    3.1. At the material time, the Claimant was obliged, under their Trade body's mandatory form of rules - that the Supreme Court Judges in the ParkingEye Ltd v Beavis case referred to as a 'regulatory framework' - to follow the British Parking Association CODE OF PRACTICE ('BPA') CoP, which said: Grace Period

    13.4 You should allow the driver a reasonable period to leave the private car park after the parking contract has ended, before you take enforcement action. If the location is one where parking is normally permitted, the Grace Period at the end of the parking period should be a minimum of 10 minutes.

    3.2 The driver did not accept the offer and has left the site therefore no breach was made.

    4. The Claimant’s representatives, BW Legal Ltd, have artificially inflated the value of the Claim from £100 to £217,88 (can I include here the interest and solicitior cost?). The Defendant submits the added costs have not actually been incurred by the Claimant; that these are figures plucked out of thin air and applied regardless of facts.
    a. If the “parking charge” listed in the particulars of claim is to be considered a written agreement between Defendant and Claimant then under 7.3, the particulars fail to include “a copy of the contract or documents constituting the agreement”.
    b. The Claimant has at no time provided an explanation how the sum has been calculated, the conduct that gave rise to it or how the amount has climbed from £100 to £217,88. This appears to be an added cost with no apparently no qualification and an attempt at double recovery, which the POFA Schedule 4 specifically disallows.
    b. The Protection of Freedom Act Para 4(5) states that the maximum sum that may be recovered from the keeper is the charge stated on the Notice to Keeper.


    Amount Claimed £167.88 (£100 PCM + £60 inicial legal costs + £7.88 statuatory interest)
    Court Fee £25
    Solicitor Costs £50

    I believe that the facts stated in this defence are true.
  • Coupon-mad
    Coupon-mad Posts: 131,690 Forumite
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    edited 20 January 2019 at 7:18PM
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    That's a very good defence. You certainly have a case.

    I would put the BPA CoP quote in italics AND with speech marks and a left indent, to set it apart from your own words as the 13.4 looks odd in point #3.

    Add in a point about no standing/not the landowner, as per other defences.

    And add a point that:

    Even if the Claimant proves the timing sychronisation and the court do not find it a case of de minimis, for which neither party should profit or be penalised, the Defendant avers that the signs are sparsely placed and (unlit if it was dark) and placed so high that no driver can possibly read terms from their car seat when driving in. It would certainly need several minutes to read anything about a penalty of £100 or any terms, which in fact do not even mention any 10 minute grace period anyway.

    Also, change this:
    4. The Claimant’s representatives, BW Legal Ltd, have artificially inflated the value of the Claim from £100 to £217,88 (can I include here the interest and solicitior cost?). The Defendant submits the added costs have not actually been incurred by the Claimant; that these are figures plucked out of thin air and applied regardless of facts.
    a. If the “parking charge” listed in the particulars of claim is to be considered a written agreement between Defendant and Claimant then under 7.3, the particulars fail to include “a copy of the contract or documents constituting the agreement”.
    b. The Claimant has at no time provided an explanation how the sum has been calculated, the conduct that gave rise to it or how the amount has climbed from £100 to £217,88. This appears to be an added cost with no apparently no qualification and an attempt at double recovery, which the POFA Schedule 4 specifically disallows.
    b. The Protection of Freedom Act Para 4(5) states that the maximum sum that may be recovered from the keeper is the charge stated on the Notice to Keeper.

    Amount Claimed £167.88 (£100 PCM + £60 inicial legal costs + £7.88 statuatory interest)
    Court Fee £25
    Solicitor Costs £50

    ...to something like this instead, and YES will the entire sum with costs stated:

    https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?p=75304578#post75304578


    Once your defence is in, set about getting proof of this, which IS highly likely:
    ANPR cameras may be couple minutes of out sync (proof?)
    Go back, with a passenger holding a phone with Google location, as your witness (or a dashcam with timing/data being stored).

    Look at the time as you driver past the entrance camera, and take a photo with the time on it too. Have Google Location enabled. Stay for TEN MINUTES EXACTLY (parking for say, nine) and then do the same with a timed photo on the way out.

    Then wait 2 weeks and see if you get a PCN. I expect you will. And you can then use your saved dashcam timing or your Google location data plus photos, to get that one easily cancelled.

    THEN use that same proof for your defence evidence.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
    CLICK at the top of this/any page where it says:
    Forum Home»Motoring»Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
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