Avoiding Oil stocks in a FTSE tracker

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  • [Deleted User]
    [Deleted User] Posts: 0 Newbie
    itwasntme001 wrote: »
    And "scientists/experts" always get it right and are never biased? Right!


    You are very naive.


    There are also scientists/experts who have shown there is no evidence of man-made climate change.


    Also what ever happened to global warming? Why is it called climate change all of a sudden? Because there is evidence the world is getting cooler, not warmer. So there is a need to change the title of the "crisis" to climate change - that way no one can refute it on the surface!

    So you have more knowledge on this subject than NASA?
    https://climate.nasa.gov/blog/2893/nope-earth-isnt-cooling/

    People like you scare me because you do not listen to FACTS.
  • AnotherJoe
    AnotherJoe Posts: 19,622 Forumite
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    edited 15 October 2019 at 3:22PM
    itwasntme001 wrote: »
    Why stop there? Why don't those who are so against the oil sector stop taking flights, stop buying anything which uses plastic, stop driving cars or any public transport using oil based fuel, stop using electricity and gas in your home?

    Longer term, flights will move to bio oil based fuels, and longer than that, electric.
    Plastic doesnt have the same GW issues as burning oil.
    itwasntme001 wrote: »
    Why stop there? Why don't those who are so against the oil sector stop stop driving cars or any public transport using oil based fuel, stop using electricity and gas in your home?


    [IMG]https://www.!!!!!!.com/media/IMAGES/Strange/under-a-rock.jpg[/IMG]

    You may have heard of electric cars
    You may have heard of buying renewable electricity?
    London is moving to all electric buses as indeed are many major cities, Shanghai has getting on for 10,000 electric buses. I believe they stopped using coal fired trains on the underground amd switched to electric in Edwardian times.
    itwasntme001 wrote: »
    Since presumably the stock prices of oil companies is lower then it should be due to those investors who ...
    ... are aware that oil companies are likely to have trillions of dollars of stranded assets that will never be realised and are getting out before the price really drops. Because the penny hasnt dropped yet so they have a fair way to fall, currently they are being sustained by long term unsustainable dividends.
    itwasntme001 wrote: »
    these very same oil companies would feel the pressure to up their oil production in order to sell more to help boost profits and keep shareholders happy (all else being equal).
    But it isnt equal, because oil consumption is only partially correlated to oil price. As the price dops, some oil fields simply become uneconomic to run and so the oil company stops producing from that field. Hence, stranded assets.
    itwasntme001 wrote: »
    these very same oil companies would feel the pressure to up their oil production Oh the irony!
    At the moment they are cutting back exploration because by and large , newer fields are expensive. No irony needed. Coal, with a similar economic argument, is dying in the US now because irrespective what Trump and the Koch brother wants, its cheaper to produce electricity via wind and solar, and cheaper trumps (ha ha) politics. Theres a coal museum in Kentucky thats just gone to solar power. "it just made financial sense" the owners said. Oh the irony.

    Oil is a very fragile product, a few % over or under production can lead to wild swings in price.

    It currently looks as if EVs will soon be cutting enough % off oil demand to lower prices, lower production and leave trillions of $ in the ground, most likely never to be extracted since wind and solar are cheaper than mid priced and up oil fields.
  • itwasntme001
    itwasntme001 Posts: 1,145 Forumite
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    newbinvestor wrote: »
    So you have more knowledge on this subject than NASA?
    https://climate.nasa.gov/blog/2893/nope-earth-isnt-cooling/

    People like you scare me because you do not listen to FACTS.


    So you trust the government and what they say is accurate and unbiased? OK.


    http://www.sjsu.edu/faculty/watkins/climatechange2.htm


    I stand corrected by the above link. The world is not getting cooler but it not getting warmer since around 2005-2010. Certainly no global warming for 10-15 years.


    You pick and chose whatever you like to hear is true.
  • Sailtheworld
    Sailtheworld Posts: 1,551 Forumite
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    itwasntme001 wrote: »
    Why stop there? Why don't those who are so against the oil sector stop taking flights, stop buying anything which uses plastic, stop driving cars or any public transport using oil based fuel, stop using electricity and gas in your home?

    The OP was only asking about BP & Shell.

    I'm not really bothered myself as I think there's a huge incentive for the likes of Shell & BP to invest in future low/ non carbon revenue streams and they've got the current cash flow to do this.

    The only thing I used to bother about in trackers were tobacco companies and I used to donate the dividends to cancer charities to salve my conscience. I don't bother anymore - it's not as if there can be any doubt that smoking will lead to an early grave so I now work on the assumption that people do so with eyes wide open.
  • itwasntme001
    itwasntme001 Posts: 1,145 Forumite
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    Sailtheworld wrote: »
    The OP was only asking about BP & Shell.

    I'm not really bothered myself as I think there's a huge incentive for the likes of Shell & BP to invest in future low/ non carbon revenue streams and they've got the current cash flow to do this.

    The only thing I used to bother about in trackers were tobacco companies and I used to donate the dividends to cancer charities to salve my conscience. I don't bother anymore - it's not as if there can be any doubt that smoking will lead to an early grave so I now work on the assumption that people do so with eyes wide open.


    Shell at least are already investing their huge cashflows into renewable energy. So investing in the company already is partly investing for renewable energy. Similarly tobacco companies are trying to invest their huge cashflows into less harmful products. Time will tell if both sectors produce shareholder value at current prices and make significant changes to their business to satisfy those who are so against these sectors.
  • eskbanker
    eskbanker Posts: 31,020 Forumite
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    itwasntme001 wrote: »
    newbinvestor wrote: »
    So you have more knowledge on this subject than NASA?
    https://climate.nasa.gov/blog/2893/nope-earth-isnt-cooling/

    People like you scare me because you do not listen to FACTS.
    So you trust the government and what they say is accurate and unbiased? OK.


    http://www.sjsu.edu/faculty/watkins/climatechange2.htm


    I stand corrected by the above link. The world is not getting cooler but it not getting warmer since around 2005-2010. Certainly no global warming for 10-15 years.


    You pick and chose whatever you like to hear is true.
    I try to keep an open mind on such matters but that San Jose stuff you're quoting from is a textbook example of the selective choice you refer to when it comes to its assessment of average global temperature trends!

    It may make sense to the author to choose a graph up to 2008 to support his assertion (that you repeat) that "The end of the 30 year or so upswing in AGT came in 2005-2010. The AGT did not go down but stayed roughly the same since then" but the years since 2008 clearly don't fit his claim, with the most recent five years all being higher than the previous peak in 2010, most by a considerable margin:

    2893_Earth_temp_final_rev7-25-19.gif.pagespeed.ce.FFly-ACp0J.gif

    Obviously data published by NASA will always be viewed with considerable scepticism by those who see it as part of some sinister conspiracy but I have no reason to disbelieve their citing of other unlinked research (but haven't felt the need to cross-check):

    1858
  • itwasntme001
    itwasntme001 Posts: 1,145 Forumite
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    An increase of about 0.75 degrees in 140 years over the long term average - oh wow the world is sure getting really hot!


    What evidence is there that this rise is even man-made? And what evidence is there that this rise is even a bad thing?
  • eskbanker
    eskbanker Posts: 31,020 Forumite
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    There's obviously all sorts of evidence, some of which is clearly open to differing interpretations by those with competing agendas, but I'd suggest that this isn't really the place for a full-on debate about climate change - I was simply highlighting a glaring hole in your chosen San Jose academic's line of argument, which inevitably undermines any credibility he may otherwise have had, while also not reflecting well on anyone who simply repeats it as fact....
  • AnotherJoe
    AnotherJoe Posts: 19,622 Forumite
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    edited 15 October 2019 at 5:35PM
    itwasntme001 wrote: »
    Shell at least are already investing their huge cashflows into renewable energy. So investing in the company already is partly investing for renewable energy. Similarly tobacco companies are trying to invest their huge cashflows into less harmful products.


    Well, the juries out on that at the moment what with some sort of a vaping health issue in the US it seems?

    Anyway, Shell are investing an insignificant % of their revenues into renewables. They probably spend as much on croissants and coffee at management breakfast meetings.

    But, hopefully each EV fast charger they install at a petrol station will nudge people towards going EV.
    itwasntme001 wrote: »
    . Time will tell if both sectors produce shareholder value at current prices and make significant changes to their business to satisfy those who are so against these sectors.
    People can be against them, and / or they can also have a dispassionate view that they are bad places to be from an investment POV.
  • coyrls
    coyrls Posts: 2,432 Forumite
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    itwasntme001 wrote: »
    There are also scientists/experts who have shown there is no evidence of man-made climate change.
    No there aren't.
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