Urgent information request PCN

davester · 18 February 2019 at 3:08PM

I visited a friend in his flat. He provided me with a permit. Some time during my stay it slipped off the dashboard. Land is owned by a residence association with 0 assets ????, The land and properties are managed by another housing association (they issue the permits to residence to give to visitor).

I was parked in a marked visitors bay, within the lines.

I received a Parking charge notice (Private land). Reason for issue "no permit".

I appealed directly to the parking company , showing proof of permit, which should satisfy a reason of no permit. They rejected on grounds the permit wasn't on display, thus breaching the contract. Although confirmed I had a valid permit.

The permit issued by the residence housing association lists various terms of use, must park in visitor bay. Filled in car reg, date and resident address. Valid till 10am next day. Can't be reused. must display on dashboard. not for residents use.

I have a few questions and comment to put to you all,

1. The permit says that failure to comply "may result in a vehicle details checked by DVLA and a fine issued".
Is it illegal to use the word fine and does that cause the permit to be illegal? thus under contract law the PCN is void as there is no possible way of having any other permit?

2. Permit doesn't mention the parking company at all. Signs do no mention the housing association, is this breaking anything?

3. Rejection letter contained only IAS.org as an appeals process, although they have BPA member on PCN and signage. POPLA number not given, IAS number? They did say all PCN's are uploaded to IAS at the end of the day. Any thoughts?

4. Car parking company do not own the land as confirmed by the Housing association that manage the land. No chain of authority was given. Any thoughts?

davester · 18 February 2019 at 5:36PM

Is there anything wrong with my post? I have yet to have any replies

KeithP · 18 February 2019 at 5:52PM

1. No, no and no.

2. Maybe. Difficult to say.

3. Only that you read the NEWBIES thread for clarification on what you should expect.

4. "No chain of authority was given." what does that mean? Given by whom?

nosferatu1001 · 18 February 2019 at 5:55PM

It isnt owned by the RA. Its operated by them.

1) No, and no. Its misleading but given they have 0 assets nothing and noone to sue.
2) No, as long as the signs do. SImilarly the sings dont have to mention ght eRA (Which is it? HA or RA?)
3) That youre confusing round and rectuangular memberships. Theyre a member of th4e IPC AOS and therefore IAS only. No POPLA.
4) HA or RA? You keep swapping. The two have UTTERLY different meanings. Its normal that they dont own the land, what matters is what their contract with HA/RA says.

Have you read the newbies threasd? Yes or No.

davester · 18 February 2019 at 6:06PM

nosferatu1001 wrote: »

It isnt owned by the RA. Its operated by them.

1) No, and no. Its misleading but given they have 0 assets nothing and noone to sue.
2) No, as long as the signs do. SImilarly the sings dont have to mention ght eRA (Which is it? HA or RA?)
3) That youre confusing round and rectuangular memberships. Theyre a member of th4e IPC AOS and therefore IAS only. No POPLA.
4) HA or RA? You keep swapping. The two have UTTERLY different meanings. Its normal that they dont own the land, what matters is what their contract with HA/RA says.

Have you read the newbies threads? Yes or No.

So according to the HA. The RA (a dormant company and subsidiary of the HA ) are the land lords and the HA is just managing the land and properties (maintenance, issuing residents with permits for visitors etc)

So whats the point of the car parking company being a member of BPA if POPLA is not available for appeals? NPC and signage an websit has BPA member logos

No chain of authority of the car parking company to have the right to "ticket" on private land by the Landlords.

KeithP · 18 February 2019 at 6:14PM

davester wrote: »

So whats the point of the car parking company being a member of BPA if POPLA is not available for appeals?

Presumably they get some benefit of being a BPA member.
You'd have to ask them, or the BPA, what that benefit might be.

Do you understand the difference between being a member of one of the two major parking associations, and being a member of an Approved Operator Scheme run by either of those two trade bodies?

Which second level appeal service offered depends in membership of the appropriate Approved Operator Scheme.

davester · 18 February 2019 at 6:18PM

KeithP wrote: »

Presumably they get some benefit of being a BPA member.
You'd have to ask them, or the BPA, what that benefit might be.

Do you understand the difference between being a member of one of the two major parking associations, and being a member of an Approved Operator Scheme run by either of those two trade bodies?

Which second level appeal service offered depends in membership of the appropriate Approved Operator Scheme.

Not 100% other than to add confusion to waste my time.

Also yes I did read the newbies page. Still lost on what to do.

twhitehousescat · 18 February 2019 at 6:44PM

OK , crystal balls broke, to clear up IPC or BPA , which parking Co

davester · 18 February 2019 at 6:50PM

twhitehousescat wrote: »

ok , crystal balls broke, to clear up ipc or bpa , which parking co

uk-cp m:(

:(

twhitehousescat · 18 February 2019 at 7:10PM

Car Park Management Services

Coupon-mad · 18 February 2019 at 7:15PM

UKCPM I reckon?

Rejection letter contained only IAS.org as an appeals process, although they have BPA member on PCN and signage. POPLA number not given, IAS number? They did say all PCN's are uploaded to IAS at the end of the day. Any thoughts?

This issue is covered in the Q&A near the start of the NEWBIES thread:

Q - ''My PCN is from UKCPM, or UKCPS, or Millennium (etc.) and it/the signs say they are both BPA & IPC members?''

A - NO, THEY ARE NOT, AND PLEASE NO MORE THREADS ASKING THIS!
http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5784929

And what to do at IAS stage (answer: pass on it!) is in the 3rd post of the sticky.

And when you get a Gladstones claim, it's very defendable/winnable, as per the 2nd post of the same sticky thread, all about how to win in court. No risk, no huge costs, no CCJ.

For now, sit on your hands & read any Gladstones UKCPM claim threads you wish!

Urgent information request PCN

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