Septic tank / cesspit confusion in potential house purchase
Comments
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My understanding is there are new rules for septic tanks that have to be met either by 2020 or when the house is sold.
You'd be best off asking your solicitor to find out the full details about these requirements and what the current owner needs to do.0 -
the_lunatic_is_in_my_head wrote: »
You sell your property: tell the new owner about the sewage treatment system
If you sell your property, you must tell the new operator (the owner or person responsible for the septic tank or small sewage treatment plant) in writing that a small sewage discharge is in place.
Include:
a description of the treatment system and drainage system
the location of the main parts of the treatment system, drainage system and discharge point
details of any changes made to the treatment system and drainage system
details of how the treatment system and drainage system should be maintained, and the maintenance manual if you have one
maintenance records if you have them
Thanks Lunatic,
The thing seems to be that the location and details of the system were lost many decades and owners ago. open cases with the council and i believe environment agency weren't able to identify it or its location either
Given they appear to have been too cheap to actually act on the recommendations of a new system they purchased an indemnity insurance policy regarding it instead. Whether that makes up for the shocking lack of information i dont know. 0 -
You (your solicitor) needs to be very clear what the indemnity insurance covers, and what it doesn't. I don't think any indemnity insurance can protect you against criminal prosection for illegal discharge, if that occurs.
To start investigating the existing system you'd get a drains surveyor to put a camera and/or radiosonde down the manholes and trace the pipes.
Also if it is a septic tank then you need to check the discharge arrangements and get the easements if you discharge over someone else's land. You can't do that until you find out where it actually does discharge, and you'd need to get expert advise whether the discharge arrangements would be adequate for a new system to current regulations.
Is there any hope of getting connected to mains drainage? That is likely to be the best long-term option if you're anywhere near an existing sewer.
Some costs here
I'm pretty adventurous with property, but I wouldn't consider a house with unknown sewage arrangements. There's something comforting knowing that when you pull the chain the effluent is hurtling off down the pipe and not gurgling around the delphiniums.
(And some old houses had the cess pit in the cellar ... )A kind word lasts a minute, a skelped erse is sair for a day.0 -
In our case, there are 2 tanks side by side, sharing one drainage field, and it's all on land we own. So, the other lot are responsible for their tank and we're responsible for ours, though we now share emptying costs bi-annually. We also share costs arising from repairs to the drainage field. An 'incident' attributable to the others some years ago, reinforced this.@ davesnave: if you have separated the responsiblity on the deeds, who is responsible for the maintenance of your septic tank? its best to keep it shared so if any big bills come in you have a legal crowbar to get shared costs.
If it ain't broke don't fix it is foolish regarding septic tanks, if you follow this, when it breaks, it will be un-fixable i.e you will need a new drainage field. Proper maintenance is needed.
My background, qualified civil engineer 30 years specializing in waste water treatment and surface water drainage.
In simple terms, they've been told if there's any repeat incident, we'll go independent treatment plant to our stream and they'll have to work out their own destiny! We think having the potential to be totally independent if we wish is very worthwhile.
Our neighbours were of the "if it ain't broke...." persuasion, but we have modified their behaviour.
That's why I added the caveat "immediately" and suggested a drainage survey in my original post, since no one should buy a pig in a poke with rural drainage.
In reply to another poster, even if there is no paperwork, perhaps a prescriptive easement will be in place if someone drains onto another's property for 20 years? This what I understand with regard to another neighbour, who has had their drainage field on our property since the 1980s.0 -
Yes, my friend had something similar, but was not raw sewage in the drainage field. Apparently it is anaerobic bacteria that blocks the pipes and field, and you end up flooding the field.Yes, I had SEPA on my back when we moved into a house with a shared septic tank, it was not maintained and leaking all over the garden it was in (not our house).
Septic tanks are not 100% efficient at breaking down all the solids, if you do not have it emptied periodically (depending on how many people use it) then it will fill to capacity and then start discharging raw sewage into the drainage field, the drainage field will fill with solids and then not be able to discharge the effulent properly. This is when the septic tank then starts to spill sewage.
Many will suggest a new field.
the fix apparently is a small aquarium air pump that blows bubbles into the non solids side (output). This apparently puts oxygen into the water, killing the anaerobic bacteria and you notice a distinct difference often within 5 weeks, and it will eventually transform your soggy drainage field to normal in around 6 months.0 -
Owain_Moneysaver wrote: »
To start investigating the existing system you'd get a drains surveyor to put a camera and/or radiosonde down the manholes and trace the pipes.
Also if it is a septic tank then you need to check the discharge arrangements and get the easements if you discharge over someone else's land. You can't do that until you find out where it actually does discharge, and you'd need to get expert advise whether the discharge arrangements would be adequate for a new system to current regulations.
Is there any hope of getting connected to mains drainage? That is likely to be the best long-term option if you're anywhere near an existing sewer.
They allegedly had a drainage surveyor run cameras and still weren't able to locate or diagnose anything about it. However i have checked and it shows up on the Natural Resources Wales website as a registered septic tank with a Grid location for a Water discharge and groundwater activities exemption. As part of registering with them you agree to abide by their guidance on operating it along with adhering to manufacturers specification and keeping 5 years worth of records.
So either the current owner has lied to Natural Resources Wales regarding the location of the septic tank and is flaunting its guidelines on operations and maintenance OR they are lying to myself, their neighbours and the estate agent in regards to not knowing where it is and shirking their maintenance responsibilities. I would guess that either way there are legal ramifications (and thus financial ones) and they would, presumably, pass over to whoever purchases that house???0 -
Interesting point which your solicitor will no doubt raise with the seller's solicitor.
Yes, most of the legal ramifications of a defective septic tank fall to whoever is the current owner.A kind word lasts a minute, a skelped erse is sair for a day.0 -
As a 'country bumpkin' I've lived in houses with septic tanks for all of my 60+ years and never heard that one before.A septic tank is only designed to deal with the liquid effluent with the solids settling in the bottom of the tank to be pumped out every 6 to 12 months.
Surely the 'system' is meant to bio-degrade the effluent.
Any evidence of this 'understanding'?the_lunatic_is_in_my_head wrote: »My understanding is there are new rules for septic tanks that have to be met either by 2020 or when the house is sold.0 -
As a 'country bumpkin' I've lived in houses with septic tanks for all of my 60+ years and never heard that one before.
Surely the 'system' is meant to bio-degrade the effluent.
I agree. A septic tank should biodegrade everything that comes out of a human plus the water needed to flush. Once a decade emptying of a septic tank should be ample if you stick to the rules. However, once people start flushing wipes, cotton buds, tampons etc thats when problems start.Any evidence of this 'understanding'?
http://www.ukdpsolutions.co.uk/its-all-change-in-2020-what-do-the-new-regulations-mean-for-you/
Basically it means your septic tank cannot discharge directly into a watercourse.0 -
Having two tanks to compare, I would add that emptying ours every 2 years is overkill, but so far it's proved more important for our neighbours, who've needed considerable de-sludging. There are twice as many of them and they don't follow convention in any other spheres of life, so draw whatever conclusions you like there!
It was their gunk that went into the outlet and messed-up the drainage field, hence our threat that if it ever happened again we'd go independent of them. Hopefully a pump-out every 2 years will head that off, and it's relatively cheap for peace of mind.0
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