Septic tank / cesspit confusion in potential house purchase

hawaza · 9 August 2018 at 8:52AM

I am looking at purchasing a house for the first time and have finally found a house which I like. However on top of the fact it's in an absolute state (needs heating system installed as doesn't have one, new kitchen, bathroom, windows - some of which are sash, rewire among other things) it has now emerged that there is an issue with the sewerage.

It's not on mains sewage and the long and short of it is that they believe there is a Septic tank / cesspit but no-one knows what state it's in or even where it is (so hasn't ever been emptied). Ive been told it's been investigated previously but no one could deduce anything but were strongly advised to install a modern system due to possible environmental issues. It's the same situation for next-door (they're semi detached) as they're on the same system. I'm told there is an indemnity insurance policy to cover it.

The questions I guess are:
How much would it cost to investigate the current system?
How much would it cost to install a new system / remove the old one if required?
How problematic is it likely to be given the neighbouring house uses the same unidentifiable system?
Am I mad to be considering such a problematic property, especially as a first time buyer and should I simply turn tail and run?

Any advice or opinions are welcomed.

Alter_ego · 9 August 2018 at 8:54AM

If it's never been emptied it must be working well - why disturb it?

Davesnave · 9 August 2018 at 9:11AM

If it's a septic tank and no one knows where it is with most areas currently parched, then 'no one' is very unobservant! Our septic tank drainage field has never been so identifiable.

It isn't a cess pit at any rate, because people would soon know if that wasn't emptied. If you can't smell it, that's also good news.

Surely, whatever it is and wherever it goes, if it ain't broke you won't need to fix it immediately, but if you want to know more, a drainage survey should provide some answers.

Just a thought: would you be you legally tied to the neighbours sewerage-wise if you purchase? Our property was like that, but our solicitor was having none of it and insisted both properties deeds were altered to allow independence in this respect; something the neighbours wanted too. Worth enquiring.

paddy's_mum · 9 August 2018 at 9:13AM

Ours was built in the 1960's and has only been emptied once. Even that one occasion turned out to be unnecessary in reality when the tankman discovered a bit of sock or dishcloth partially blocking the outlet pipe.

If it ain't broke, don't fix it perhaps applies here

hawaza · 9 August 2018 at 10:24AM

Thank you all for your advice/thoughts so far, didn't expect so many so quickly

I'm happy to work with the if it ain't broke don't fix it approach, but the neighbours suggested the last investigation showed some environmental contamination due to it and suspect they may not be lenient enough to let it go this time around if it gets flagged at any point during the purchasing process. Can you be forced to install a new system if it's deemed unsatisfactory or environmentally problematic?

In terms of not being able to notice it, the garden is an impenetrable green jungle, expansive and terraced. Somehow it seems to have shrugged off this unprecedented hot and dry spell. Truth be told I'm slightly concerned as to whether something invasive may be growing somewhere in there, somewhere....

I'll have to check / get the solicitor to check about the legal aspect of the sewerage. It's a very a good point davesnave and one I'd not thought of!

tonyh66 · 9 August 2018 at 12:10PM

"Can you be forced to install a new system if it's deemed unsatisfactory or environmentally problematic"

Yes, I had SEPA on my back when we moved into a house with a shared septic tank, it was not maintained and leaking all over the garden it was in (not our house).
Septic tanks are not 100% efficient at breaking down all the solids, if you do not have it emptied periodically (depending on how many people use it) then it will fill to capacity and then start discharging raw sewage into the drainage field, the drainage field will fill with solids and then not be able to discharge the effulent properly. This is when the septic tank then starts to spill sewage.
@ davesnave: if you have separated the responsiblity on the deeds, who is responsible for the maintenance of your septic tank? its best to keep it shared so if any big bills come in you have a legal crowbar to get shared costs.
If it ain't broke don't fix it is foolish regarding septic tanks, if you follow this, when it breaks, it will be un-fixable i.e you will need a new drainage field. Proper maintenance is needed.

My background, qualified civil engineer 30 years specializing in waste water treatment and surface water drainage.

teneighty · 9 August 2018 at 1:03PM

paddy's_mum wrote: »

Ours was built in the 1960's and has only been emptied once. Even that one occasion turned out to be unnecessary in reality when the tankman discovered a bit of sock or dishcloth partially blocking the outlet pipe.

If it ain't broke, don't fix it perhaps applies here

So you've been discharging raw sewage on to your land for the best part of 50 years. Nice.

paddy's_mum · 9 August 2018 at 2:49PM

teneighty wrote: »

So you've been discharging raw sewage on to your land for the best part of 50 years. Nice.

Not on your life! What the blue blazes do you take me for - some sort of rural !!!!!! with a deathwish for myself and my neighbours? :mad:

I don't understand how you can possibly reach a conclusion like that. Doesn't everybody's toilet have an outlet pipe, either to the main sewer or to a tank of some sort?

Without an outlet pipe, you yourself must be discharging raw sewage over the floor of your home, if we continue your train of thought...:)

teneighty · 9 August 2018 at 3:14PM

paddy's_mum wrote: »

Not on your life! What the blue blazes do you take me for - some sort of rural !!!!!! with a deathwish for myself and my neighbours? :mad:

I don't understand how you can possibly reach a conclusion like that. Doesn't everybody's toilet have an outlet pipe, either to the main sewer or to a tank of some sort?

Without an outlet pipe, you yourself must be discharging raw sewage over the floor of your home, if we continue your train of thought...:)

If it has only been emptied once in 50 years where do you think all the sewage has been going? A septic tank is only designed to deal with the liquid effluent with the solids settling in the bottom of the tank to be pumped out every 6 to 12 months.

Unless you have a serious constipation issue that is a lot of poo that should have been pumped out that must have gone somewhere. I bet your vegetable patch is very productive, although probably best not to eat any root crops.

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head · 9 August 2018 at 3:41PM

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/general-binding-rules-small-sewage-discharge-to-the-ground

You sell your property: tell the new owner about the sewage treatment system
If you sell your property, you must tell the new operator (the owner or person responsible for the septic tank or small sewage treatment plant) in writing that a small sewage discharge is in place.

Include:

a description of the treatment system and drainage system
the location of the main parts of the treatment system, drainage system and discharge point
details of any changes made to the treatment system and drainage system
details of how the treatment system and drainage system should be maintained, and the maintenance manual if you have one
maintenance records if you have them

hawaza · 9 August 2018 at 3:49PM

Tonyh66 thanks for your input.

As far as I and any of the owners know this hasn't been emptied, at least not for at least 10-20 years if not more. The 2 houses must be at least 100 years old. About 10 years ago when the house was last purchased there was apparently a strong push by the council/environment agency (I think) to get them all using a new system but they never followed through and instead they got indemnity insurance to cover in case something happened with it.

Would a good indemnity insurance cover the cost of cleanup and installation of a new system should one be required? How much would one cost as assume it can't be transferred from the current owners to the new one?

Septic tank / cesspit confusion in potential house purchase

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