IMPORTANT: Please make sure your posts do not contain any personally identifiable information (both your own and that of others). When uploading images, please take care that you have redacted all personal information including QR codes, number plates and reference numbers.

Court proceedings for auto repair visit

2456722

Comments

  • Geoff1963
    Geoff1963 Posts: 1,088 Forumite
    I don't want to cause them any trouble if I can avoid it
    They can pay the PCN, job done.
    I'm amazed it didn't get nicked!
    I think mine was the worst car in the neighbourhood, no self-respecting thief would have been seen dead in it. :)
  • Lamilad
    Lamilad Posts: 1,412 Forumite
    First Anniversary Photogenic Name Dropper First Post
    I don't want to cause them any trouble if I can avoid it.
    What???

    Has the garage owner come to you and said "this is our fault, let us deal with it"? Doesn't sound like it.

    Meanwhile you're looking at a court case which will require hours of work, considerable stress and the daunting prospect of actually having to defend yourself in court, in front of a judge.

    Well this IS their fault and we'll be advising you to make that abundantly clear if we are to support you through this.

    They have put you in this position, don't let them sit back and smugly watch you have to deal with it.

    On this forum, That's not how we roll
  • foofcat
    foofcat Posts: 106 Forumite
    edited 19 August 2017 at 10:06AM
    @ Geoff1963 - haha that's a brilliant and hilarious badge of honour that even the thieves went "nah"

    @Lamilad - I see what you mean but I really don't want to be confrontational about it for reasons I'd rather not list here. (Will send you a message tomorrow if I get a moment). I agree it's their fault and this has been really horrifyingly stressful, but when I left the garage tonight they said I should come back if I needed anything further up to and including coming to court with me. I agree I shouldn't let people off the hook so easily, but I would rather save any big guns as a last resort.

    And honestly I feel like an idiot for not taking robust action before now so in a weird way I feel I got myself into a mess. Think I'm going to take your advice from earlier and focus my energies into the defence before thinking about the other aspects.

    This has turned out to be a very costly wing mirror indeed :( (silently cursing the person who knocked it off my car)
  • Geoff1963
    Geoff1963 Posts: 1,088 Forumite
    Perhaps the garage owner could be called as a witness. They can either admit that they had custody of the vehicle at the time, so one of their employees put it there ; or lie. A small wad of cash would fix things ; unlike a certain speeding MP and his wife, there are no penalty points.

    PCM might be persuaded to say a more precise time when it arrived and left ; which is when the OP was evidently somewhere else.
  • foofcat
    foofcat Posts: 106 Forumite
    Yep I thought about asking him to be a witness too but I wasn't comfortable with some of his suggestions today. Felt like having him be a witness might somehow get me out of the proverbial frying pan and into etc etc. But at least he gave me the receipt and was friendly enough about it. (Just wish he'd said "we'll take care of the ticket" at the very start and that I'd responded to PCM and told them I wasn't driving... hindsight.)

    I've just clocked (haha) that the precise time is on their "pay my PCN" site - it says 17:11 on there, and from my texts / messages to friends it looks like I picked it up shortly after 19:00. The estimates in my original posts were approximated from the tiny timestamps on PCM's pictures taken from their website.
  • Lamilad
    Lamilad Posts: 1,412 Forumite
    First Anniversary Photogenic Name Dropper First Post
    they said I should come back if I needed anything further up to and including coming to court with me
    What do they propose to say in court when the judge reads your defence which will say it is the garage that is liable for the charge, not you?

    Once your case has been dismissed. It is then up to PCM whether they start new proceedings against the garage - history tells us it's unlikely they will.

    At that stage the garage can start a thread here and we will help them build a defence based on a number of other reasons why the charge cannot be enforced.

    Please be aware: Lying to the court is not an option. We will never advise it, and never support it.

    It can lead to criminal charges for contempt of court, perverting the course of justice and/or purjury - which carries a possible prison sentence.
  • foofcat
    foofcat Posts: 106 Forumite
    edited 19 August 2017 at 2:25AM
    Please be aware: Lying to the court is not an option. We will never advise it, and never support it.

    Absolutely understood and agreed. It's certainly not my style and thankfully I've no need or inclination to since I wasn't driving! I don't think I've said anything to advocate lying but it's good you've emphasised that for anyone who (like me, until earlier this evening) was browsing through the forum looking for advice. In my experience, lying always makes things worse which is what I was hinting at in my last post by mentioning the proverbial frying pan :)

    Yes I did find it odd that he'd say that and wondered if he was just saying that for the sake of it... and maybe to stop me from taking action towards the business. The conversation was decidedly odd! And in answer to your question he maintains he doesn't know who was driving it at the time and wouldn't be able to prove who was. If I'm honest, I don't really want to get involved with investigating that (I think that's PCM's job if they want it), I just want this whole thing off my rather tired shoulders.

    Fingers crossed it's dismissed, but feels like there's a way to get yet. Nearly finished the first draft of my defence now, phew!
  • foofcat
    foofcat Posts: 106 Forumite
    6. Is there any risk that the solicitors or their agents might be searching for their name on forums like this and could use it as evidence against a defendant?

    Does anyone have any specific experience or thoughts on this one in particular? I can't sleep and spotted another thread where someone commented that these solicitors do search these forums to find something to use in court..
  • foofcat
    foofcat Posts: 106 Forumite
    edited 19 August 2017 at 10:09AM
    Quick update - I found the original NTK and some quick observations from it:

    The time stamp says 16:36 even though the summary of the incident on their "pay my pcn" site says 17:11. As I said above I don't think I even picked it up until shortly after 19:00

    No mention of a yellow windscreen ticket

    Date the NTK was posted was 3 days after the alleged contravention so they got hold of my details from DVLA really fast it seems. So the alleged contravention was on a Saturday around 5pm, and my the following Tuesday they'd issued the NTK.

    Cites PoFA 2012

    Says "this vehicle was parked in a manner whereby the driver agreed to pay a charge: 'Parked within a restricted area.'"

    Also says at the bottom "PCM as agent of the landowner has the right to seek payment of this parking charge"

    I'm now wondering if there could have even been a contract so to speak if the signs forbid parking on the road altogether (which they do).
  • Quentin
    Quentin Posts: 40,405 Forumite
    edited 16 October 2017 at 11:23PM
    Yes.

    We always warn posters to remain anonymous here, don't post links to correspondence that contains any information that can identify you, etc

    The ppcs monitor this forum and can use your thread against you
This discussion has been closed.
Meet your Ambassadors

Categories

  • All Categories
  • 343.1K Banking & Borrowing
  • 250.1K Reduce Debt & Boost Income
  • 449.7K Spending & Discounts
  • 235.2K Work, Benefits & Business
  • 607.9K Mortgages, Homes & Bills
  • 173K Life & Family
  • 247.8K Travel & Transport
  • 1.5M Hobbies & Leisure
  • 15.9K Discuss & Feedback
  • 15.1K Coronavirus Support Boards