Mortgage PPI Reclaim
Comments
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Sorry for the confusion.
Well I have to admit my head is spinning as I have spent a good part of the day on the phone to the Ombudsman and Britannia.
Brtiannia made an offer on 23rd October 2017 in which they outline their reasons for that offer. It seems to amount to all of the unemployment elements of the policy from December 2000 (when they say I notified them of my change in circumstances and presumably the end of the policy).
I have until 23:59 on Sunday to get this complaint in.
My concerns are numerous. I believe we did not have an option to not incept a policy with Britannia for several reasons even though evidentially we both signed a form which said we wanted it. I note that the mortgage application form was filled out by my partner. We opted out of the Buildings and Contents policy as she was a commercial account handler at an insurance brokers. She will have got a better deal. She would have got a better deal on PPI also had we, I believe, not been coerced into buying the Axa policy through Britannia.
One major concern is that the policy contains accident and sickness and unemployment. Would I be correct in thinking that the policy would have covered us both for all eventualities? If so, when she left in March 1999 and I notified them in December 2000 then why did the premium not halve?
The Ombudsmand said today that I need her consent to bring this matter to them because we were both named on the policy. When I say we were both named, I cannot see any evidence of who was named on the original policy, I am just making an educated guess, Britannia have not provided any evidence in their final response pack.
If I do need her consent, why would Britannia make an offer to me?
I note that they wrote to me in 2004 citing that the names (mine and hers)on the policy did not match the name (mine) on the mortgage after 2001 (when the mortgage transferred over into my sole name).
What concerns me is why did they not simply cancel the policy and provide advice based on my new circumstances? This leads me to think that the policy was fixed and not negotiable.
Furthermore, if the premium has remained largely the same from 1997 - 2017 then surely they have been overcharging me accident and sickness cover for my non-existent partner for 18 years?0 -
. I believe we did not have an option to not incept a policy with Britannia for several reasons even though evidentially we both signed a form which said we wanted it. I note that the mortgage application form was filled out by my partner. We opted out of the Buildings and Contents policy as she was a commercial account handler at an insurance brokers. She will have got a better deal. She would have got a better deal on PPI also had we, I believe, not been coerced into buying the Axa policy through Britannia.
That actually works against you. If you knew you could buy your buildings insurance elsewhere, then its not a leap of faith to realise that applies to all insurances.Would I be correct in thinking that the policy would have covered us both for all eventualities?
No. It could have been 50/50. 75/25 or 100/0.If so, when she left in March 1999 and I notified them in December 2000 then why did the premium not halve?
Did you notify the insurer?If I do need her consent, why would Britannia make an offer to me?
Banks and building societies are strange beasts. It may have been an auto-payout (i.e. not investigated but automatically paying out on that segment. It maybe that they spotted an issue early on. We can only guess.
Again, that can work against you as you knew 14 years ago that there may be an issue.I note that they wrote to me in 2004 citing that the names (mine and hers)on the policy did not match the name (mine) on the mortgage after 2001 (when the mortgage transferred over into my sole name).What concerns me is why did they not simply cancel the policy and provide advice based on my new circumstances?
They are not allowed to do that. They can raise the potential issue with you, as they did, but the decision is yours.This leads me to think that the policy was fixed and not negotiable.
They may have moved to a different version by the time it happened. However, tied saless also had anti-churn rules that prevented them from advising cancellation and taking out a new plan. Remember these are not IFAs or brokers.Furthermore, if the premium has remained largely the same from 1997 - 2017 then surely they have been overcharging me accident and sickness cover for my non-existent partner for 18 years?
But why didnt you tell them to change the cover?
Missale relates to point of sale. Not future events. Some of things you mention may have legs. Some not. My response was partly devils advocate to indicate potential issues.I am an Independent Financial Adviser (IFA). The comments I make are just my opinion and are for discussion purposes only. They are not financial advice and you should not treat them as such. If you feel an area discussed may be relevant to you, then please seek advice from an Independent Financial Adviser local to you.0 -
That actually works against you. If you knew you could buy your buildings insurance elsewhere, then its not a leap of faith to realise that applies to all insurances.
My point is, I believe, either both of us or her alone were told it was compulsory which they deny.Did you notify the insurer?
No because I believed they were acting as insurer. I can see now from the paperwork they have provided that the policy was placed with Axa. This was my first ever mortgage. I was not experienced in any way. I thought you simply grovel, apply, grovel some more and believe everything they tell you and be grateful that they've given you a roof over your head.
Not really, I had had a breakdown after the breakdown of the relationship. I didn't whether I was coming or going and I would bet that some of that paperwork is STILL in its original envelope unopened or not opened until years after the event.Again, that can work against you as you knew 14 years ago that there may be an issue.
Seems incredible? That's what can happen in real life.
As before, I believed they were the insurer. They were best placed to set alarm bells ringing. Coincidentally, it took them 3 years to realise the name issue even though I had emailed them when I was able to, to advise them of the transfer of ownership.They are not allowed to do that. They can raise the potential issue with you, as they did, but the decision is yours.They may have moved to a different version by the time it happened. However, tied saless also had anti-churn rules that prevented them from advising cancellation and taking out a new plan. Remember these are not IFAs or brokers.
I think this is what they are saying.
I didn't know whether I was coming or going. Nothing excuses them, surely from not acting in some way and making a point out of it. Our only dealings were with the Building Society never with any insurer. You would think you can trust them to know what they are doing. If one partner leaves and is transferred off the mortgage, why would you continue to cover them for accident and sickness if they are not paying towards the mortgage?But why didnt you tell them to change the cover?Missale relates to point of sale. Not future events. Some of things you mention may have legs. Some not. My response was partly devils advocate to indicate potential issues.
I appreciate your response. Devil's advocate or not.
I feel it's a lot more complex and without reciting War and Peace here perhaps I am unable to properly put my point across.0 -
I'm sorry, but you're really going to have to accept some responsibility for things not being done right.I didn't know whether I was coming or going. Nothing excuses them, surely from not acting in some way and making a point out of it. Our only dealings were with the Building Society never with any insurer. You would think you can trust them to know what they are doing. If one partner leaves and is transferred off the mortgage, why would you continue to cover them for accident and sickness if they are not paying towards the mortgage?
How can either your mortgage provider or insurer possibly know that you've split with your girlfriend or suffered mental health problems as a result and left important correspondence un-opened for years. Whilst taking her name off the mortgage might be a clue to something, you also wouldn't be happy if they subsequently took her off the insurance without specific instruction either - had you later wanted to make a claim for her. Organisations of this nature will only act upon instruction, you can't expect them to make up their own stories to fill in gaps or act autocratically.
Getting a smaller payout than you think you should have had, when at the end of the day, you're somewhat culpable for the situation, seems like a pretty fair outcome to me and perhaps more than you could reasonably have expected. So spend it and enjoy it and forget this issue. Or perhaps learn from it and vow to take better care of your financial affairs in future.0 -
I'm sorry, but you're really going to have to accept some responsibility for things not being done right.
How can either your mortgage provider or insurer possibly know that you've split with your girlfriend or suffered mental health problems as a result and left important correspondence un-opened for years.
Because I wrote to them and told them in December 2000 that we'd split. They even sent me a copy of the letter in their final response.0 -
How can you provide evidentially proof of something that was verbally conveyed?
You cant. That is why most complaints that fail on that particular point. (they may go on to succeed on other points)I am an Independent Financial Adviser (IFA). The comments I make are just my opinion and are for discussion purposes only. They are not financial advice and you should not treat them as such. If you feel an area discussed may be relevant to you, then please seek advice from an Independent Financial Adviser local to you.0 -
How can you provide evidentially proof of something that was verbally conveyed?
It was a facetious post, I know you can't, that's the issue. You can't prove that was said so it's a fruitless avenue, without it in writing it's just he said she said and won't be considered as evidence - remember you prove wrong doing, not them disproving it0 -
It was a facetious post, I know you can't, that's the issue. You can't prove that was said so it's a fruitless avenue, without it in writing it's just he said she said and won't be considered as evidence - remember you prove wrong doing, not them disproving it
I was aware of that hence my rhetorical reply.
Well. How about this? I took a dive in at the deep end and managed to track down and locate my then partner and emailed her.
Her response was in line with my beliefs. She states in her email, "To be honest, I can't remember what I signed at the time or why I would have ticked the PPI box when we were struggling for money and my job was secure - it was a long time ago though!"
This afternoon, I have found a letter from my employer that my long term job prospect with the company was practically assured.
I have also found the original letter regarding payment protection stating that we were entitled to free unemployment cover for 12 months and that they are unable to trace having received your application form.
It turns out that the ticked box only shows we'd agreed to receiving an application form for payment protection.
So it looks like they incepted a policy without any signatures.
I have just spoken to a friend in insurance and he claims that you cannot have a policy schedule with two benefits ie accident and sickness and a separate unemployment benefit as it is under the one and same policy. You either have a policy or you dont.
Your further thoughts would be appreciated. This has to be with the Ombudsman before midnight.
Many thanks for the disussion so far.0
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