Your browser isn't supported
It looks like you're using an old web browser. To get the most out of the site and to ensure guides display correctly, we suggest upgrading your browser now. Download the latest:

Welcome to the MSE Forums

We're home to a fantastic community of MoneySavers but anyone can post. Please exercise caution & report spam, illegal, offensive or libellous posts/messages: click "report" or email forumteam@. Skimlinks & other affiliated links are turned on

Search
  • FIRST POST
    • RG2015
    • By RG2015 8th Jan 19, 4:24 PM
    • 1,506Posts
    • 951Thanks
    RG2015
    Interest details on HMRC Personal Tax Account online
    • #1
    • 8th Jan 19, 4:24 PM
    Interest details on HMRC Personal Tax Account online 8th Jan 19 at 4:24 PM
    In the last week HMRC have added full details of my interest received in my online personal tax account. Previously they had just shown the one figure that I had reported to them as my total untaxed interest income for the 2017/18 tax year.

    This amount has shown for a few months as the estimate for 2018/19 and is now showing the individual details for 11 of my savings accounts. Only one bank is missing and the amount for this one is a balancing figure to get back to my annual amount rounded down to the nearest pound.

    Clearly my banks have reported my interest received to HMRC and with the one exception noted above every account is correct to the penny. Just for information the missing bank is Virgin Money and the figure for this bank and the rounding is classified as follows which incidentally is the narrative that was previously used for the single total figure.

    DUMMY ACCOUNT
    ****$$$$
    00-00-00

    After hearing accounts of HMRC reporting incorrect figures I am pleasantly surprised to find that their figures are 100% accurate for 11 of my 12 accounts.
Page 7
    • Spiggle
    • By Spiggle 9th Feb 19, 2:55 PM
    • 1,751 Posts
    • 14,201 Thanks
    Spiggle
    Yes Dazed, three sources of income LGPS Pension, Widows LGPS Pension both on PAYE systems and untaxed interest from savings.
    I haven't calculated the untaxed interest exactly it is an estimate but will be well above the amount used in my recent tax code notice (for 2018-19) of £563.
    No to Scottish residency.
    No sadly not, we previously had exchanged MA but obviously not for some time and all would have changed when my husband died a few months ago.
    Thanks again in advance,
    Spigs
    Mortgage Free October 2013
    • Dazed and confused
    • By Dazed and confused 9th Feb 19, 3:51 PM
    • 3,846 Posts
    • 1,962 Thanks
    Dazed and confused
    Tax codes are based on figures, even if some are estimated, so without an estimate it is impossible to know what your tax codes will be.

    Can you not provide a best guess?

    "Well above" £563 could be £1,000. Or £5,000. Or £50,000.
    • Alice Holt
    • By Alice Holt 9th Feb 19, 3:51 PM
    • 2,807 Posts
    • 3,277 Thanks
    Alice Holt
    What a farce this system is!

    I was refunded £80 earlier this tax year. Now they want £50 of it back (P800 notice for 2017/18).

    They don't have any savings interest recorded for me for 2016/17. They won't take a total figure off me now (see below).

    They say I received £1,200 savings interest in 2017/18. I didn't, I received £2,500.

    Because of the above they say I will receive the same £1,200 savings interest in 2018/19. I won't. I'll receive £2,400.

    My online PTA lists 17 accounts that paid interest in 2017/18 (and system was crashing when I tried to amend the details). So called them up and found the telephone advisor only had 8 of these on her system! So we synchronised the other 9 accounts.

    I wanted to add another 30 accounts that will pay interest this year because they said I should give an estimate rather than waiting for the official update. For each account they wanted sort code/account number, provider name, how much interest they paid in 2017/18, closing date (where applicable), and even opening date.

    After speaking with her manager, the advisor abandoned this process after 3 of the 30, and took a summary figure instead (and lumped it all into a fictitious sort code!).

    In short, I've been asked to pay the £50 (as shown on the P800) and wait for the banks to update in due course.

    I reckon at some point in time I'll get a bill for around £1,200 (covering 3 tax years). Appreciate I owe it, but why can't it be a smoother system?
    Originally posted by YorkshireBoy
    I had similar.

    Advised them of my estimated 18/19 untaxed interest figure a couple of months back and received an amended tax code.
    Have just received a new tax code with a much higher untaxed interest estimate I don't recognise.
    Rang them up to be told they required Individual amounts, and account / sort codes, for each separate account.
    Have now added account / sort codes to my spreadsheet for 2018/19,
    So that estimate / info is ready to give HMRC.

    Oh dear, I can see this being a frustrating saga. I won't have all the account codes for previous years as some accounts will have been closed.
    Alice Holt Forest situated some 4 miles south of Farnham forms the most northerly gateway to the South Downs National Park.
    • Spiggle
    • By Spiggle 9th Feb 19, 4:14 PM
    • 1,751 Posts
    • 14,201 Thanks
    Spiggle
    Tax codes are based on figures, even if some are estimated, so without an estimate it is impossible to know what your tax codes will be.

    Can you not provide a best guess?

    "Well above" £563 could be £1,000. Or £5,000. Or £50,000.
    Originally posted by Dazed and confused
    Hi Dazed, I don't think I'm speaking your language I'm afraid but I am trying.
    Estimates are exactly what HMRC are using when defining a tax code based on bank/building soc/fin. institutional returns from previous years.
    So I estimate that I will receive untaxed interest of £1007 this year which will be the amount that HMRC will use as they cannot use current year figures (for a PAYE income) for this coding calculation e.g. I may withdraw all my liquid funds and blow it on a round the world cruise during the next TY or even within the first couple of months of the TY. For ease I rounded this down to £1000.
    I just would like you to show me how the tax code notice would look using the figures provided please?
    I am not asking you what my tax code will be i.e. actual, I'm asking if you could please explain how the coding notice will look assuming the figures provided in the first of my posts today were the actual used by HMRC please. (Assuming that nothing else is changed to personal, starter savings or personal savings allowances between now and April.)
    Thanks in advance,
    Spigs
    Mortgage Free October 2013
    • Dazed and confused
    • By Dazed and confused 9th Feb 19, 4:29 PM
    • 3,846 Posts
    • 1,962 Thanks
    Dazed and confused
    It wasn't clear what the £1,000 related to (you had deducted from your Personal Allowance for some reason) and without knowing what the interest estimate is it is impossible to say what the tax code might be.

    Anyhow now you have settled on £1,007 your tax liability would be as follows,

    Pension income £12,558
    Interest £1,007
    Total £13,565
    Less PA £12,500
    Income to be taxed £1,065
    £58 x 20% (basic rate) = £11.60
    £1,007 x 0% (savings starter rate) = £0.00
    Total tax due £11.60

    This would translate into two tax codes,
    Pension 1 = 968L (PA £12,500 less allowances used against pension £2,818 = £9,682)
    As allowances given via PAYE will be £9,689 no tax will be deducted from pension 1
    Pension 2 = 281T (£2,818 allowances taken from pension 1 tax code)
    As allowances given via PAYE will be £2,819 and income is £2,876 tax will be deducted of approx £11.40 (2876-2819 = 57 x 20%)
    Last edited by Dazed and confused; 09-02-2019 at 4:38 PM.
    • Malchester
    • By Malchester 9th Feb 19, 8:31 PM
    • 155 Posts
    • 108 Thanks
    Malchester
    Dazed - just a thank you for explaining things. I am quite with it in relation to savings and investments, and make all my own decisions on this with a good degree of success, but have always struggled with the way that hmrc works but I think I now understand thanks to your explanation
    • Money_Grabber13579
    • By Money_Grabber13579 10th Feb 19, 10:32 AM
    • 2,988 Posts
    • 1,469 Thanks
    Money_Grabber13579
    Anyone else found that the interest reported by Atom to HMRC is out by a factor of 100? I earned £128 in 17/18 but the online tax account is showing this as £1.28....
    Northern Ireland club member No 382
    • AlwaysLearnin
    • By AlwaysLearnin 10th Feb 19, 12:25 PM
    • 589 Posts
    • 499 Thanks
    AlwaysLearnin
    [Snip]

    It is normal for a tax code to include a deduction for interest if there is spare allowances available.

    It might look wrong at first glance but the result would be that no tax is actually payable unnecessarily.
    Originally posted by Dazed and confused
    D&C, firstly, thanks for your help on this thread - most helpful.

    I was just interested in the above points, more specifically why they do this?

    This is relevant to my situation, as they have just reduced my 18/19 tax code by the full amount of 17/18 interest received (not just the amount over £1k) for some reason. Fortunately the resultant personal allowance amount is still above my anticipated 18/19 taxable income, so there still shouldn't in fact be any tax payable as you say, but it just seems a very odd way of doing things.

    I might however have more taxable income in 19/20, therefore IF they apply the same principle to my tax code next year then I could be paying tax via PAYE which isn't in fact due. I would therefore like to better understand why, so that I can at least go in to a conversation with them better informed, if/when required.

    Many thanks
    • Rich2808
    • By Rich2808 10th Feb 19, 2:01 PM
    • 697 Posts
    • 543 Thanks
    Rich2808
    I think the lesson I am learning is not to have so many savings accounts and regular savers!

    And to prompt me to move my ISA from Al Rayan who incorrectly reported my £240 in interest on an ISA account as taxable to HMRC - luckily I checked as that could have cost me £100 in extra tax alone! If you have an ISA with them or did I suggest you check too!
    Last edited by Rich2808; 10-02-2019 at 2:03 PM.
    • Dazed and confused
    • By Dazed and confused 10th Feb 19, 3:20 PM
    • 3,846 Posts
    • 1,962 Thanks
    Dazed and confused
    I was just interested in the above points, more specifically why they do this?

    This is relevant to my situation, as they have just reduced my 18/19 tax code by the full amount of 17/18 interest received (not just the amount over £1k) for some reason. Fortunately the resultant personal allowance amount is still above my anticipated 18/19 taxable income, so there still shouldn't in fact be any tax payable as you say, but it just seems a very odd way of doing things.

    I might however have more taxable income in 19/20, therefore IF they apply the same principle to my tax code next year then I could be paying tax via PAYE which isn't in fact due. I would therefore like to better understand why, so that I can at least go in to a conversation with them better informed, if/when required.
    I don't know why, it's just something that seems to happen and is mentioned somewhere on gov.uk in HMRC's tax code manual.

    I might however have more taxable income in 19/20, therefore IF they apply the same principle to my tax code next year then I could be paying tax via PAYE which isn't in fact due
    Surely if they apply the same principle you won't have income (other than savings) above your Personal Allowance. If you did there would be no spare allowances which the interest could be offset against and therefore no slightly confusing tax code. The fact that you have realised the code won't actually result in an incorrect deduction of tax suggests you are pretty clued up already!

    But, you mention £1k and I don't know if you even qualify to benefit from the PSA rate of tax?

    A lot of posters on here don't seem to and your post seems to me to make it unlikely you can have the £1,000 PSA rate. Or do you have total taxable income in excess of £16,850?

    The only thing I would suggest you need to do is to not only monitor the savings interest amounts HMRC use - recent posts on here would suggest one or two problems with particular banks - but also make sure they have an accurate estimate of your taxable earnings/pension income.
    Last edited by Dazed and confused; 10-02-2019 at 3:23 PM.
    • AlwaysLearnin
    • By AlwaysLearnin 10th Feb 19, 3:38 PM
    • 589 Posts
    • 499 Thanks
    AlwaysLearnin
    Thanks. I get the point re the PSA (my reference to the £1k in my previous post was misjudged), however my thinking is that they won't know in Apr 19 what spare allowance I might have for 19/20...

    I'll wait to see what happens in April.

    Thanks again
    • Dazed and confused
    • By Dazed and confused 10th Feb 19, 5:04 PM
    • 3,846 Posts
    • 1,962 Thanks
    Dazed and confused
    HMRC do receive earnings and pension information each time a payment is made (real time information) so they should have a good idea of what you would be expected to earn next year.

    But of course changes in jobs and things like pension drawdown where you can pretty much do as you please payment wise probably makes it harder to be very accurate.

    If you get what seems to be an incorrect code I would say the best thing to do first is check your Personal Tax Account to see if the underlying data or income assumptions are accurate. There may be nothing else which needs changing other than that.
    • Vortigern
    • By Vortigern 11th Feb 19, 1:33 AM
    • 2,680 Posts
    • 1,839 Thanks
    Vortigern
    I'm in a similar position to other multi-account regular saver fans in that there are many accounts that require deletion, correction or replacement. My interest from 2017-18 was close to £2000 but all within the starting rate for savings and taxed at 0%. For 2018-19 my interest income is much reduced, but still over £1000 and having started my state pension (in addition to a company pension) I no longer have access to the starting rate.

    I need to contact HMRC to make some corrections (for the accounts with no sort code)

    Should I -
    1. Tell them which accounts are closed, correct those that are still open, but not mention any new accounts?
    2. Just give them my estimate of total interest income expected for 2018-19?
    3. Give full details including the accounts they possibly don't yet know about?

    Option 1 would have the same effect as completing the changes online. It would result in slightly lower tax until the banks next report interest to HMRC, hence deferring rather than avoiding the tax.

    Options 2 & 3 would give a more accurate tax code and no deferral, but 3 would probably need to be dealt with by mail.

    My new tax code ends LX - What does the X signify?
    • Dazed and confused
    • By Dazed and confused 11th Feb 19, 7:38 AM
    • 3,846 Posts
    • 1,962 Thanks
    Dazed and confused
    My new tax code ends LX - What does the X signify?
    The L is part of your actual tax code and means your pension company can make an automatic uplift to your tax code for 2019:20 if HMRC don't send them a new code separately.

    X means the code is being used on an emergency or non cumulative basis. So your pension company just used that code against each months pension from now on without any reference to what you have been paid earlier in the tax year. It is often used when your tax code goes down and stops a big tax deduction the first time the new code is used, clawing back tax back to the start of the tax year.
    • youngretired
    • By youngretired 11th Feb 19, 11:47 AM
    • 254 Posts
    • 148 Thanks
    youngretired
    Hi Dazed and confused, you seem to know what you are talking about when it comes to HMRC.

    I did ask a question in January regarding HMRC taking this years tax for interest earned during this year using estimates and you kindly provided an answer. I have another question that hopefully you can answer as HMRC don't seem to be able to clarify this via live chat.

    Where they are taking the tax during this tax year (having received an adjusted tax code) my husband was expecting them to take it all during the remaining tax year and this is what HMRC keep telling him, but when his February pay was taken it would appear that the tax has been split over 12 months? i.e. he owes estimated £72 and they have only taken £6 in February when he thought it would be £24.

    Is this normal as my dad will be in the same boat and trying to make sense of this is so confusing. If HMRC do only take a portion of the estimated tax that is owed during 18/19 then when do they take the remaining amount?

    Both my husband and dad paid their 17/18 tax via a payment online to hopefully simplify the tax in future.
    • MoneyGeoff
    • By MoneyGeoff 11th Feb 19, 12:52 PM
    • 155 Posts
    • 117 Thanks
    MoneyGeoff
    This thread makes me grateful I was pushed into filing a tax return a couple of years ago. Perhaps I won't rush to tell HMRC I don't really need to do so any more.
    Originally posted by masonic
    Me too. I've been doing self assessment for many years but since my affairs are simple (PAYE plus a bit of saving interest) it takes literally minutes to complete. Most of the sections don't appear since they are not relevant. Most of the rest of it is auto-completed, leaving me to fill in my salary and savings interest and that's about it.

    I think lots of people completely overestimate the complexity of self assessment. Perhaps it is difficult if you have businesses, BTLs, and other tax complication but for the average person it's way less hassle spending a few minutes completing a SA than spending hours on the phone to HMRC.
    • Spiggle
    • By Spiggle 11th Feb 19, 2:57 PM
    • 1,751 Posts
    • 14,201 Thanks
    Spiggle
    Thanks Dazed,

    The calculation you've shown kinda makes sense but doesn't correlate to the 'format' of the coding notice. Thank you.
    .
    It wasn't clear what the £1,000 related to (you had deducted from your Personal Allowance for some reason) and without knowing what the interest estimate is it is impossible to say what the tax code might be. ...
    Originally posted by Dazed and confused
    Your comment quoted above is exactly why so many people are getting confused with the notice of coding recently sent out. I had deducted the £1000 from my PA precisely because thats what HMRC show as happening in the Notice dated 15 January 2019 received last week which led to my original question and concern.

    What I have been seeking all along is an answer to how it will look or the 'format' of the Coding Notice I'll receive once my combined pensions are above the PA.

    It is not sufficient to say that the net position is still the same i.e. no tax is payable, when ordinary people assume that if the untaxed savings interest is shown as a deduction against the PA it is a mistake. Anyone not working for HMRC, a tax advisory body or similar is going to project forward to the next TY and think 'oh my I need to move funds, make changes, etc.' unnecessarily. Whereas your reply shows the calculation they will use, do prepare for a lot more questions on this as new TY tax codes are distributed.

    I am not alone in this either. There are many posts, threads and questions on these forums that are as equally bemused as I have been. I have taken no pleasure from reading others confused by a cost cutting government, seeking to reduce HMRC staff and thereby costs and push everyone on line.

    Self Assessment is fine for those who got their heads straight early and invested and have large funds. Its fine for the self employed and business owners. It is not fine for us, the little people who are the Joe and Josephine public not wishing to become embroiled for weeks trying to resolve tax affairs that are, by the standards of a lot of the posters on here, small fry.

    One that did make me laugh though was my friend, who is still working, on Saturday patiently sat and listened to my moans about this. Yesterday, she went for a coffee with another retired friend only to be assailed by virtually the same moans from that retiree! Her comment to me was she felt she'd stepped into her own groundhog day.

    I note your reply to another poster to write to their MP. It is a good idea.

    The government seems to view HMRC as a public service only insomuch as it is funded by the public purse and therefore must be cut but forgetting the service of the public that is so necessary. No doubt that their various rich donors get tax breaks for paying privately for advice, bully for them.

    Suffice to say I wholeheartedly agree that the whole system is now a shambles of the highest order.

    Just one last comment, I know that you disagree Dazed but there really does need to be an edit or possibly convergence on the articles on the main site regarding the SSA and PSA. The wording is misleading. It matters not one jot to me which order the SSA and PSA were announced by the govt but it matters hugely how, where and when those rates are applied or lost. It also needs to work through examples at varying levels of income both above and below the annual PA.

    All the best,
    Spigs
    Last edited by Spiggle; 11-02-2019 at 3:00 PM. Reason: Corrected grammar.
    Mortgage Free October 2013
    • MoneyGeoff
    • By MoneyGeoff 12th Feb 19, 12:46 PM
    • 155 Posts
    • 117 Thanks
    MoneyGeoff
    Unfortunately, since I'm not working, and therefore don't see a PAYE section in my personal tax account, I can't see the list of accounts they know about. Any suggestion how I may get this information?
    Originally posted by drlabman
    I would like to know the answer to this too.
    • drlabman
    • By drlabman 12th Feb 19, 11:03 PM
    • 239 Posts
    • 40 Thanks
    drlabman
    Was the letter a P800 or something else?
    Originally posted by Dazed and confused
    I don't see P800 anywhere on the letter. It's a Notice of Simple Assessment under Finance Act 2016. No, I don't know either.
    Give a man a fish, and he will eat for a day. Teach him how to fish, and you’ll get rid of him every weekend.
    • Dazed and confused
    • By Dazed and confused 12th Feb 19, 11:27 PM
    • 3,846 Posts
    • 1,962 Thanks
    Dazed and confused
    That seems to be a new innovation!

    Your original question was about a discrepancy between your figures and those used by HMRC and the link below has information about challenging a Simple Assessment demand

    https://www.gov.uk/hmrc-internal-manuals/paye-manual/paye96301
Welcome to our new Forum!

Our aim is to save you money quickly and easily. We hope you like it!

Forum Team Contact us

Live Stats

364Posts Today

5,814Users online

Martin's Twitter