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Main site > Forums > Essential Money > Savings & Investments > Peer-to-peer lending sites: MSE guide discussion
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      masonic
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    • masonic
    • By masonic 7th Feb 19, 8:56 PM
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      What's this?

    masonic
    “
    “
    Sure but you gave a hypothetical case of firms having FSCS protection. So we need to assume collateral had FSCS protection.
    Originally posted by itwasntme001 ”
    Ok, I'll accept that.
    Originally posted by masonic ”
    Although it isn't material to the hypothetical discussion above, I should clarify that the investments made through Collateral were probably not P2P. Most likely the investments will be considered to be in an unregulated collective investment scheme. As such all losses are capital losses that cannot be offset against P2P interest, but can be offset against capital gains. And if P2P was covered by the FSCS, Collateral would still have been exempt. Just in case anyone was under any misapprehension.

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      shoi
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    • shoi
    • By shoi 11th Feb 19, 8:12 AM
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      What's this?

    shoi
    “
    Firstly, Collateral was not authorised, it was trading fraudulently. .....
    Originally posted by masonic ”

    They have said that they had expensive legal advice that the authorisation was sufficient

    Sorry!

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      shoi
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    • shoi
    • By shoi 11th Feb 19, 8:15 AM
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      What's this?

    shoi
    “
    .... I should clarify that the investments made through Collateral were probably not P2P. Most likely the investments will be considered to be in an unregulated collective investment scheme. ...
    Originally posted by masonic ”

    I must have blinked. What tells you that?

    Sorry!

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    • User avatar
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      masonic
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    • masonic
    • By masonic 11th Feb 19, 12:19 PM
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      What's this?

    masonic
    “
    They have said that they had expensive legal advice that the authorisation was sufficient
    Originally posted by shoi ”
    The authorisation would have been sufficient if they had it. They didn't. The authorisation of a different, dissolved company was fraudulently altered to make it look like it belonged to Collateral.

    Much like valuation reports, legal advice is dependent on the quality of the information upon which it is based.

    “
    I must have blinked. What tells you that?
    Originally posted by shoi ”
    It has been discussed at length over in the P2P Independent Forum. Collateral was not authorised to facilitate P2P agreements. As such, these could not have been P2P loans as defined in Article 36H of the FSMA 2000 regulated activities order . HMRC further clarifies its definition of a P2P loan is "based on the definition used to define peer to peer lending as an activity that is regulated by the Financial Conduct Authority" and "A platform that arranges article 36H agreements will be carrying on the regulated activity of 'operating an electronic system in relation to lending' and will need to be authorised by the FCA".

    In short, I wouldn't try to claim income tax relief on your Collateral losses if I were you.

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      MoneyGeoff
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    • By MoneyGeoff 12th Feb 19, 11:40 AM
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      What's this?

    MoneyGeoff
    I was quite surprised that Martin kept saying 'P2P Saving' instead of 'P2P Investing' on TV last night.

    He did correct himself at one point and say it's investing, not saving. But then he continued to say 'P2P Saving' for the rest of the show and then again on twitter last night.

    Perhaps I'm being pedantic but I would have thought in Martin's position he'd be very clear on the difference and not jumble up the terms.

    Sorry!

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      george4064
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    • By george4064 12th Feb 19, 2:02 PM
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      What's this?

    george4064
    I can't login to my RateSetter account at the moment.

    After entering my username and password, and hit 'LOGIN' nothing happens. My internet is working fine.

    Anyone else having issues?
    "If you aren’t willing to own a stock for ten years, don’t even think about owning it for ten minutes” Warren Buffett

    Save £12k in 2016 - #045 £10,358.81/£12,000 (86%)
    Save £12k in 2017 - #003 £12,427.51/£12,000 (104%)
    Save £12k in 2018 - #004 £5,529/£12,000 (46%)

    Sorry!

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      AdrianC
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    • AdrianC
    • By AdrianC 12th Feb 19, 2:55 PM
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      What's this?

    AdrianC
    “
    I can't login to my RateSetter account at the moment.

    After entering my username and password, and hit 'LOGIN' nothing happens. My internet is working fine.

    Anyone else having issues?
    Originally posted by george4064 ”
    Just tested, and RS are working fine from here.

    Sorry!

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      masonic
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    • masonic
    • By masonic 12th Feb 19, 4:47 PM
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      What's this?

    masonic
    “
    I was quite surprised that Martin kept saying 'P2P Saving' instead of 'P2P Investing' on TV last night.

    He did correct himself at one point and say it's investing, not saving. But then he continued to say 'P2P Saving' for the rest of the show and then again on twitter last night.

    Perhaps I'm being pedantic but I would have thought in Martin's position he'd be very clear on the difference and not jumble up the terms.
    Originally posted by MoneyGeoff ”
    You are not being pedantic. The FCA considers any association of P2P with 'saving' to be misleading and has even made one P2P platform change its name because it included the word 'Saving'.

    Sorry!

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      Nardge
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    • By Nardge 13th Feb 19, 10:37 AM
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      What's this?

    Nardge
    Quick Query -

    When I first invested in P2P, large sums were invested, and autobid 'parcels' were equally large as a result...

    Funding Circle 'Balanced' has defaulted a single loan part (£49.60), and Zopa 'Plus' several (£97.50 in total).

    I believe that if I'd drip-fed the initial funds, the 'parcels' would have been smaller, and consequently,
    the above default losses much smaller too? Is my thinking right?

    Therefore, where no charge to sell loans is incurred (Funding Circle) and so as to create smaller 'parcels',
    it'd be a good idea to sell all FC loans, reinvest the sum again in FC by dripfeed (turning autobid on and off),
    thus creating tiny 'parcels', and only tiny losses as a result? Is this correct?

    I know neither of the above P2P have a safeguard, though that hasn't been to my great detriment as yet.

    With Kind regards
    Last edited by Nardge; 13-02-2019 at 9:26 PM.

    Sorry!

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      JimmyTheWig
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    • By JimmyTheWig 15th Feb 19, 4:12 PM
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      What's this?

    JimmyTheWig
    Hopefully a quick question - when does the interest count in terms of tax purposes.

    I opened a Ratesetter account in December with a 1 year product.
    In January that settled early and I earned £2.97 interest.
    The money went automatically into the Rolling product (see earlier posts).
    I took it out of Rolling into another 1 year product and earned £1.22 interest for the period it was rolling.

    Assuming that I leave the money in there for the whole year, in December I'll get a load of interest. At which point I'll probably withdraw the whole lot back to my current account.

    Do I declare the £4.19 interest in this tax year, and the rest of it when it is paid in the next tax year?
    Or do I only declare it when it comes back into my current account on the basis that I might not get all of it back?

    Sorry!

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      masonic
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    • masonic
    • By masonic 15th Feb 19, 4:28 PM
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      What's this?

    masonic
    “
    Do I declare the £4.19 interest in this tax year, and the rest of it when it is paid in the next tax year?
    Or do I only declare it when it comes back into my current account on the basis that I might not get all of it back?
    Originally posted by JimmyTheWig ”
    You declare it as being received in the tax year in which it is paid. It does not matter if you later lose it, although you could get bad debt relief against other P2P interest at the point it is declared irrecoverable.

    You will have access to a tax statement after the end of the tax year. That will summarise what you need to declare.

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      JimmyTheWig
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    • By JimmyTheWig 19th Feb 19, 9:14 AM
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      What's this?

    JimmyTheWig
    Ah, ok. That makes sense.

    Sorry!

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      tcallaghan93
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    • By tcallaghan93 20th Feb 19, 7:44 PM
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      What's this?

    tcallaghan93
    no-one knows
    The same thing will happen to your money either way. Funding Circle and Zopa will automatically do what you are thinking of (I think, based on my understanding of the platforms and based on the way I read what you wrote) by ensuring no more than 1% of your money goes to any one loan.

    Personally I don't even worry about this. The only thing I do is, with my parent's accounts, I staggered them by a month. i.e. Mum's money was fully invested before I got Dad's account open. This ensured that they weren't both buying the same loans at the time they opened this account - diversification. A year down the line and Dad's had one default, Mum's had 7. You can't predict this stuff!

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      Nardge
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    • Nardge
    • By Nardge 28th Feb 19, 2:39 PM
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      What's this?

    Nardge
    tcallaghan93 - Many thanks for sharing your thoughts with me...

    I asked the same question you kindly answered on the p2p independent forum, the consensus was as you've said...

    My query stemmed from the fact I'd simply invested two large lump sums into both the above, thus the % 'parcels' were much larger in actual value than if I'd invested several smaller sums. 1% of £10,000 is much larger than 1% of £100. In consequence to the larger value of the % 'parcels' so created, the defaults were substantially higher in value than if I'd kept turning the autobid on and off in the first instance, whilst the funds were being invested...

    It's a lesson learnt for the future!

    With Kind Regards
    Last edited by Nardge; 28-02-2019 at 2:45 PM.

    Sorry!

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  • jamesd
    “
    They have said that they had expensive legal advice that the authorisation was sufficient
    Originally posted by shoi ”
    The FCA has said that they never had permission and are investigating how an entry saying that a firm with that name ended up in the FCA database of firms with interim permission.

    If you instead prefer a view that they didn't need permission then no income tax relief is available because that relief is only available to firms with permission making 36h loans.

    A potential glimmer of hope is that the FCA and HMRC might agree that an entry in the database should be regarded as sufficient, however it got there. I haven't seen anything to suggest that this is happening.

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      Betuaintgotthis
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    • By Betuaintgotthis 4th Mar 19, 9:04 AM
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      What's this?

    Betuaintgotthis
    Hi All
    Just wondering what peoples experience has been with Grupeer. Opened an account and made first deposit a month or two ago, took a while for funds to appear after verifying source of funds etc. Decided on making a second deposit expecting this to be a lot smoother this time but more hoops. I'm required to get transferwise to confirm that the funds are mine. Sounds simple but transferwise appear to be difficult company to work with and getting confirmation is like getting blood from a stone. Thankfully I have only tested the waters with small amounts but really thinking this may be more hassle than its worth. If I can't deposit easily I hate to think how difficult withdrawal will be. Interested to hear other peoples experiences have been.

    Sorry!

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      shoi
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    • By shoi 4th Mar 19, 10:09 AM
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      What's this?

    shoi
    “
    The FCA has said that they never had permission and are investigating how an entry saying that a firm with that name ended up in the FCA database of firms with interim permission.

    If you instead prefer a view that they didn't need permission then no income tax relief is available because that relief is only available to firms with permission making 36h loans.

    A potential glimmer of hope is that the FCA and HMRC might agree that an entry in the database should be regarded as sufficient, however it got there. I haven't seen anything to suggest that this is happening.
    Originally posted by jamesd ”

    Well their stance is (was) that the permission was handed on from a related company, and I imagine with a bit of shopping around you might get some lawyer to agree that it's possibly allowable to do so. The real point is how are we meant to know if this will hold up. So yes the FCA have a responsibility to check them out so we don't have to (quote frm FCA advert)
    Last edited by shoi; 04-03-2019 at 11:13 AM.

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      Rupert The Bear
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    • By Rupert The Bear 5th Mar 19, 9:34 PM
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      What's this?

    Rupert The Bear
    Funding Circle - 'three weeks' to withdraw
    I have invested in FC over the years after reading about them on MSE.
    I have sold 'loan parts' occasionally to withdraw, and the selling process has taken 1 to 4 days.
    Last Sunday (9 days ago) I initiated a sale to enable a withdrawal. After 5 days I enquired as to when I could get my money and was told it can now take up to three weeks.
    Has anyone else experienced this ? I'm by nature a bit of a worrier, and I'm sure there's nothing to worry about, but a bit of reassurance would be most welcome !

    Sorry!

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      Nardge
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    • Nardge
    • By Nardge 5th Mar 19, 9:57 PM
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      What's this?

    Nardge
    “
    I have invested in FC over the years after reading about them on MSE.
    I have sold 'loan parts' occasionally to withdraw, and the selling process has taken 1 to 4 days.
    Last Sunday (9 days ago) I initiated a sale to enable a withdrawal. After 5 days I enquired as to when I could get my money and was told it can now take up to three weeks.
    Has anyone else experienced this ? I'm by nature a bit of a worrier, and I'm sure there's nothing to worry about, but a bit of reassurance would be most welcome !
    Originally posted by Rupert The Bear ”
    Rupert The Bear - I’m afraid that’s exactly how long it’s taking at the moment. I sought to sell all my FC loans exactly three weeks ago as per my above posts here, with the aim of reinvesting in tiny amounts so as to create ‘tiny parcels’ and minimise the monetary value of defaults. The completion e-mail only came through today (3 weeks after the start of sale), except there was nothing completed about it, as there remained a large number of unsold loans (and neither wrapped up by missed borrower payments nor by pending defaults to account for that fact). As a result, I put these unsold loans back on sale for the second time today...

    Take a look under ‘FC’ on the ‘P2P Independent Forum’...
    You will find a very large number of FC Investors discussing all things FC-related there...
    I suspect there's even a Thread discussing your topic

    Hope that helps
    With Kind Regards
    Last edited by Nardge; 07-03-2019 at 8:57 AM.

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      MoneyGeoff
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    • By MoneyGeoff 7th Mar 19, 8:52 AM
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      What's this?

    MoneyGeoff
    “
    I have invested in FC over the years after reading about them on MSE.
    I have sold 'loan parts' occasionally to withdraw, and the selling process has taken 1 to 4 days.
    Last Sunday (9 days ago) I initiated a sale to enable a withdrawal. After 5 days I enquired as to when I could get my money and was told it can now take up to three weeks.
    Has anyone else experienced this ? I'm by nature a bit of a worrier, and I'm sure there's nothing to worry about, but a bit of reassurance would be most welcome !
    Originally posted by Rupert The Bear ”
    Have a look at these threads:

    totally-pulled-out-due-losses

    long-withdraw-funds

    I have had sales queued for over 3 weeks now and it looks like others have too. Also people are saying that buying is taking several days too?

    It's taking so long to sell loans that they are still for sale when the next repayment is due. This causes the loans to go to Processing and then fall out of the sales queue, meaning they have to be manually sold again and you start at the back of the queue!

    Sorry!

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