UKPC, Popla how short an appeal?

forgotmyname · 2 April 2019 at 2:06AM

Helping a family member (the keeper) with a POPLA appeal. 15 minute overstay where 90 minutes was allowed.

Carpark was extremely busy at the time (lunchtime). Driver drove in and out 4 times in total, the keeper received 4 identical letters. We assume its clocked each entrance / exit (ANPR) yet they only provided the same photo in each letter and only one parking charge.

Driver was disabled so given the trouble finding a parking space a grace period of 15 minutes should have been allowed.

The rejection letter only said the signs are adequate, yet my appeal made no mention of the signage. Found an appeal on pepipoo from last year with an identical rejection letter, yet their appeal was totally different. Seems they dont read the actual appeal.

Can we appeal with just the points the disabled driver could not find a space and did not spend the full 105 minutes inside, they drove in and out 4 times in total.

Receipt for purchase 50 minutes after the time on the first photo.

Disabled driver should have been allowed an extended period of grace so the 15 minute claimed overstay should be within that timeframe.

What do you think? Enough to appeal just those points?

Has anyone looked into the difference of "90 minute stay" and 90 minute parking? Its a parking charge afterall?

Too risky? Appeal on all the usual?

Thanks and you guys are brilliant

(grovel grovel, flattery flattery)

Umkomaas · 2 April 2019 at 7:29AM

Complain to the retailer, ask them to intervene.

There are no differential grace periods.

SAR UKPC and ask for all photos of vehicle with VRM xxxxxx

MistyZ · 2 April 2019 at 9:58AM

I'd do a long-ish POPLA appeal. For a start it'd be great to get some photos to embed in the appeal showing just how busy the car park is at that time of day. And while this is not a point I've seen in POPLA appeals, I'd probably point out that the signage does not state that time spent feverishly searching for a space is included in the 90 minutes.

Even without differential grace periods for a disabled driver, I reckon 15 minutes can be taken as an acceptable grace period according to BPA guidelines.

Was the identity of the driver revealed in the initial appeal?

Definitely complain to the manager of the store emphasising how busy the car park is, the driver's disability, the amount spent on the day and any past custom. Insist on cancellation. If that draws a blank, complain to the store's CEO. If the store is not the landowner find out who is and complain to them. This one is very cancellable!

And agree re. SAR too .... you're going to be busy but hopefully you'll get a gratifying outcome!

D_P_Dance · 2 April 2019 at 10:00AM

UKPC are fraudsters.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/11858473/Parking-firm-UKPC-admits-faking-tickets-to-fine-drivers.html

This is not a grace period, you have not yet parked.

https://parking-prankster.blogspot.com/2014/03/waiting-for-space-is-not-parking.html

Read also about the "reasonable adjustments" service providers are required by law to make under The Equality Act to cater for those with "protected characteristics" under the Act and complain to your MP.

On 18th March 2019 a Bill was enacted to curb the excesses of these private parking companies. Codes of Practice are being drawn up, an independent appeals service will be set up, and access to the DVLA's date base more rigorously policed, and persistent offenders denied access. Hopefully life will become impossible for the worst of these scammers.

Until this is done you should still complain to your MP, citing the new legislation.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2019/8/contents/enacted

Just as the clampers were finally closed down, so hopefully will many of these Private Parking Companies.

Coupon-mad · 2 April 2019 at 4:44PM

POPLA codes last for 32 days.

NEVER rush to try POPLA (keeping an eye on that deadline though) until you have absolutely exhausted the complaint channels to the Store Managers and the people who run the actual retail park (Google the name of the place).

And I mean completely exhausted the complaint option, not been fobbed off once...

forgotmyname · 2 April 2019 at 4:50PM

The parking event was lunchtime mid December, we dont live anywhere near the location, Newark McDonalds.

Did get someone to take pictures recently as they passed through but they are close to midnight and even then it shows how busy the carpark is.

POPLA needs to be in this week, so no time for a SAR i dont think?

The keeper was staying with me over xmas and they went abroad then stayed with me and only got home to find the letters on the day they needed to be appealed.

No the driver was not identified, after the appeal they sent a letter saying name the driver. Yeah you wish. (i made a post about that). After we failed to name the driver they sent the appeal rejected letter stating the signage was adequate.

I didnt mention the signage in the appeal.

Thanks

Coupon-mad · 2 April 2019 at 6:52PM

Carpark was extremely busy at the time (lunchtime). Driver drove in and out 4 times in total, the keeper received 4 identical letters. We assume its clocked each entrance / exit (ANPR) yet they only provided the same photo in each letter and only one parking charge.

What do you mean, there are 4 PCNs in play from the same day?

I don't understand what you mean?

Was the car actually parked more than 15 minutes over, or were there two or more trips?

forgotmyname · 2 April 2019 at 9:10PM

The driver drove in and out of the carpark several times due to no spaces.

The keeper received 4 identical letters at the same time all with the same parking charge reference. All dated the same.

I presume the ANPR picked up the vehicle going in and out and their system generated 4 letters with the same photo.

Also guessing the first photo/time and last photo/time is the only pictures they used.

Its difficult because its several hours from my location and the keepers location. We tend to stop at that location also as its the midway point when we visit.

Umkomaas · 2 April 2019 at 9:14PM

Does each letter have a separate and different PCN reference number?

forgotmyname · 2 April 2019 at 9:16PM

Does that make sense now?

From the intial entry to the final exit it would be 15 minutes over, BUT... the driver left the premises and drove back in due to the lack of spaces.

From the start time of the first photo to the purchase in the property it was about 40 minutes. Some of that would have been actually parking and going to the toilet before purchase.

So they were unlikely to have been on the premises the whole 15 minutes over that they claim.

Clear as mud?

Thanks

forgotmyname · 2 April 2019 at 10:13PM

Just phoned the keeper and yes 100% every letter the same times and dates and the same reference.

Quadruple dipping where they used the first and last timestamps?

UKPC, Popla how short an appeal?

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