Is it too late to appeal a PCN once debt collector involved and court action threatened?

Dksav · 1 March 2019 at 12:43PM

Hi all

Sorry if this is an innaoropriate new thread, I have looked through some previous ones but can't seem to find any identical cases and I'm pretty concerned about being imminently taken to court..

Here's a brief run down of what's happened so far..

I was ticketed for parking in a space outside of a friend's apartment for a couple of hours after 9PM on the 21st December 2018. There was signage, although this was (in my opinion) inadequate - I have since been back and took a number of pictures which demonstrate this.

I (stupidly) ignored the ticket on the advice of a colleague thinking nothing would come of it. Then a couple of weeks later in January received my first letter informing me of the PCN and demanding payment. The letter was dated 24th December, and from that date I was informed I had 2 weeks to pay the reduced fine. Due to Christmas period (I'm guessing) the letter was not with me until right near the end of that 2 week period, and by the time I had opened it and gone to pay I was 1 day past it and the fine had gone up to £100. I called the office of the company issuing the fine, Vehicle Control Solutions, and spoke to a very unhelpful man, explained that I had not long received the letter and this was probably due to postal delays over the Christmas period, but was informed that the price now would be £100 and that's that.

So I (stupidly and/or stubbornly) refused to pay the full amount based on principle, assuming that I would receive letters demanding payment but nothing would come of it. I have since received a 2nd letter demanding payment, and now a 3rd letter, which states the price has not gone up to £160 and, the part which has got me worried, they intend to take me to court if don't pay it within a certain (now 2 days past) time period. Again though, they have dated the letter 2 weeks ago and it has mysteriously only landed in my post box with a day or 2 left of this time frame.

In this most recent letter they have referenced the Beavis court case, which has led me to research it and now got me worried they will actually take me to court.

This brings us to my current situation, where having been back and looked at where I parked and the surrounding inadequate signage, I feel that had I appealed it in the first case I probably would have won the appeal. Only problem is that doesn't seem to be an option now. I'm on my first day of annual leave, sat searching for advice on this forum, fully expecting a letter from a solicitor to be waiting for me when I get home next week.

A quick note on the inflated fine as well, the most recent letter was still from the same company, not an actual debt collection agency. They just said that because it has now gone to their debt collection 'office', a fee of £60 has been added on top of the original £100 fine.

Any advice on how I could possible still appeal, or just not end up in court, without paying this ridiculous fee, would be massively appreciated.

Thanks!

Coupon-mad · 1 March 2019 at 12:59PM

So I (stupidly and/or stubbornly) refused to pay the full amount based on principle,

Quite correctly. All private parking charges are a scam.

I feel that had I appealed it in the first case I probably would have won the appeal.

No chance! Not with any IPC firm.

You haven't read post #3 of the NEWBIES thread then. IAS is clearly a kangaroo court, so the likes of VCS offer no appeal worth trying. It would have been futile.

because it has now gone to their debt collection 'office', a fee of £60 has been added on top of the original £100 fine.

They lied. They can't add 'damages/costs' sums on, but all scammer PPCs do. It's also NOT A FINE.

fully expecting a letter from a solicitor to be waiting for me when I get home next week.

Nope, VCS don't use solicitors, they file their own claims (not all cases go to small claims). Sit tight and STOP PHONING THEM!

Read post #3 of the NEWBIES thread, to understand why the IAS appeal was never an option, so you've not missed any chance to 'appeal and win'. No need to beat yourself up. You are in the same position you were, just stop PHONING them and taking them so seriously!

Get photos of the lack of signs; you will need them if VCS try a small claim, in which case no panicking, come back here and please please read the SECOND post of the NEWBIES thread about defending claims, before you do anything or ask any questions.

This is all covered there and we win 99% of them, no CCJ risk, nowt bad, no huge costs, nothing to be scared of, as long as you tell VCS in writing, if you change address. You do not want to miss court claim papers.

Dksav · 3 March 2019 at 12:47PM

Amazing, thanks for your speedy response, I feel much calmer about the whole thing now. Is there any specific maximum amount of time that can elapse before they can't take it to a small claims court? I'm likely moving house in the next 12 month's, it would be nice to just not contact them if I'm going to ignore them, but if there's still chance of them taking it to court I'll obviously write to them and tell them my new address.

waamo · 3 March 2019 at 1:37PM

Dksav wrote: »

Amazing, thanks for your speedy response, I feel much calmer about the whole thing now. Is there any specific maximum amount of time that can elapse before they can't take it to a small claims court? I'm likely moving house in the next 12 month's, it would be nice to just not contact them if I'm going to ignore them, but if there's still chance of them taking it to court I'll obviously write to them and tell them my new address.

They have 6 years (5 in Scotland) to take it to court so make sure you inform them of any moves you make.

Half_way · 3 March 2019 at 1:47PM

Without authorisation from the landowner, they can not succeed in court.

If you can get some sort of confirmation from the landowner that they do not want this going to court/being dealt with in the courts you would effectively pull the rug from under the parking companies feet.

A lot of landowners can easily get confused over who/waht exactly they have got involved with, and will in some cases turn to the PPC for advice.
If complaining to the landowner with the intention of getting them to withdraw support for their agents, the parking company taking this to court, you should not tell the landowner about the stage/status of any appeal/challenge, debt collectors, or even court papers being issued.

Dksav · 3 March 2019 at 2:10PM

Brill, thanks for the info!

Dksav · 23 May 2019 at 2:27PM

Hi, I'm back with an update on this PCN.

I have ignored all correspondence since I last posted in this thread.

Came home from work last night to a County Court Claim Form from the County Court Business Centre in Nottingham.

Particulars are that the claimants claim is for £160 (plus court fee of £25), for the aforementioned parking contravention.

I have (very gratefully) took your advice and looked through the newbie thread and believe my next plan of action should be as follows:

1 - I need to enter an acknowledgement of service (I now have 9 days left to do this). I assume I need to select the option 'I intend to defend all of this claim'? Also the letter from the court gives me a password with an option to do this online to save time and money - is this a suitable method to use?

2 - I need to write to VCS (or their data protection officer) with a Subject Access Request, requesting information such as all photos taken, a copy of all correspondence, a list of PCNs they consider to be outstanding against me, all data held, all evidence they will rely on, and a full copy of the PCN. Could this be via email?

3 - I cannot see anything to suggest they are using a solicitor, so do I contact VCS again, as in separately to their DCO, informing them that I have sent a SAR and require a restriction of data processing and that the case should be put on hold?

That's pretty much where I'm up to. I'm happy to pursue this to court as the amount payable if it doesn't work out for me isn't so much more than the amount they wanted anyway beforehand.

My only concern is that, if the courts were to rule in their favour, would this affect my credit rating even if I paid immediately?

I'm 29 and looking to get my first mortgage with my partner literally within the next 6 months. Having this affect my credit now would be pretty catastrophic, I'd take the flack on my credit score obviously which I can deal with, but I'd hate for it to affect her as well with us looking to buy so soon.

As always, really appreciate your help and look forward to your response.

The_Deep · 23 May 2019 at 2:48PM

Should you lose in court and pay promptly no-one will know. However, as Nine times out of ten these tickets are scams so put some pressure on them and complain to your MP.

Parliament is well aware of the MO of these private parking companies, and on 15th March 2019 a Bill was enacted to curb the excesses of these shysters. Codes of Practice are being drawn up, an independent appeals service will be set up, and access to the DVLA's date base more rigorously policed, persistent offenders denied access to the DVLA database and unable to operate.

Hopefully life will become impossible for the worst of these scammers, but until this is done you should still complain to your MP, citing the new legislation.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2019/8/contents/enacted

Just as the clampers were finally closed down, so hopefully will many of these Private Parking Companies.

Le_Kirk · 23 May 2019 at 2:59PM

1. Correct and it is the preferred method to use. Do not put anything in the defence box - not even a full stop - your defence will be e-mailed later. If you tell us the issue date of the claim form from Northampton, KeithP will be along to give you some deadlines.
2. Correct. check out the privacy page on the VCS web site. It is normally dpo@....
3.. If you want to place a hold on data processing, you need to tell VCS that, although you dispute that there is any debt, you are taking debt advice and you require them to suspend processing for 30 days.

The Deep has answered your concern re the CCJ.

KeithP · 23 May 2019 at 3:25PM

Dksav wrote: »

Came home from work last night to a County Court Claim Form from the County Court Business Centre in Nottingham.

I'm pretty sure it came from Northampton, not Nottingham.

What is the Issue Date on your Claim Form?

Dksav wrote: »

My only concern is that, if the courts were to rule in their favour, would this affect my credit rating even if I paid immediately?

No.

Coupon-mad · 24 May 2019 at 3:03AM

I'm 29 and looking to get my first mortgage with my partner literally within the next 6 months. Having this affect my credit now would be pretty catastrophic,

That won't happen. We know what we're doing. We don't risk your credit rating.

I did tell you in my first reply, to stop you worrying:

no CCJ risk,

What is the Issue Date on your Claim Form?

Is it too late to appeal a PCN once debt collector involved and court action threatened?

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