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Should I just give in and pay (details in post)

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  • Beehj84
    Beehj84 Posts: 30 Forumite
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    KeithP wrote: »
    You've had the Claim Form for over three weeks now.
    You can post up your draft Defence for critique if you wish.
    Did you do the AoS before last Tuesday?
    You now have just one week to finalise your Defence - still plenty of time.

    Thanks for the on going replies KeithP. Appreciated.

    I have had the form for 3 weeks now. I posted the AoS within the first week started reading for my defence, and then had a long overdue weeks holiday to visit family, and have continued reading over the weekend.

    I was using the pre-constructed defense in the thread I linked in my last comment above (as much as I could link with my account restrictions anyway). I'll not post it in its entirety due to privacy, so I'm currently using it as a template and removing things which don't seem to apply.

    I'm just looking for some guidance that this is the correct pathway before I invest hours more into the wrong thing, which will kill my inspiration for the task. I struggle with some mental health idiosyncrasies (as previously mentioned) and I'm finding this whole thing a little tough.
  • Beehj84
    Beehj84 Posts: 30 Forumite
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    The_Deep wrote: »
    So the claim is for 260 odd pounds,

    This is tantamount to fraud imo, a lot more than the law allows. The solicitors know this but hope to sucker you into paying.

    Even if they won their claim in court, which is unlikely as it looks as though no contract was ever entered into, the most a judge is likely to award would be £175 - £200, the rest is think of a number money.

    I suggest that you complain to the regulatory body, the SRA about this demand for unlawful costs.

    http://www.sra.org.uk/home/home.page

    I'm hoping it will be a lot less than even 175-200 quid frankly. But yes, it's definitely tantamount to fraud IMO. The total amount claimed from the court document is 334 pounds! Outrageous.

    I will definitely make a complaint to the SRA, perhaps as soon as I've finished my defence.
  • tboo
    tboo Posts: 1,379 Forumite
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    what this one


    https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5659621


    that is dated 04/06/2017


    you need to put the defence you will be sending up on the thread so it can be critiqued upon
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  • Coupon-mad
    Coupon-mad Posts: 131,669 Forumite
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    You could either adapt that older one (it's not bad at all) or use bargepole's concise templates in the NEWBIES thread that he wrote in 2018, which can be adapted to show your facts. Nice and short and to the point.
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  • System
    System Posts: 178,093 Community Admin
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    To keep it simple, the defence was that you paid but your attempts to pay were frustrated by the Claimant's payment system. You simply show the call records from the day to show your attempts.

    Anything else is just waffle and against the court's overriding objectives to narrow the issues.
  • Beehj84
    Beehj84 Posts: 30 Forumite
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    Thank you all for your ongoing help.
    tboo wrote: »
    what this one
    https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5659621
    that is dated 04/06/2017
    you need to put the defence you will be sending up on the thread so it can be critiqued upon

    That's the one I had started adapting, yes. I will be posting the defense here today, and hoping to send it off tomorrow.
    Coupon-mad wrote: »
    You could either adapt that older one (it's not bad at all) or use bargepole's concise templates in the NEWBIES thread that he wrote in 2018, which can be adapted to show your facts. Nice and short and to the point.

    Do you mean this one? https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showpost.php?p=74674865&postcount=24
    To keep it simple, the defence was that you paid but your attempts to pay were frustrated by the Claimant's payment system. You simply show the call records from the day to show your attempts.

    Anything else is just waffle and against the court's overriding objectives to narrow the issues.

    Okay, I'm redoing the concise one linked above with this point at the centre.

    Are you sure that is the argument to use? The Claimants have evidence of other people paying using the phone system to pay at around the same time period, and I only have a screen shot of my call log showing failed calls and then the successful call and payment made a few hours later. The claimants "refute my claim" that I tried to call in their POPLA documents. I would think that at a certain point they should have to explain why I would construct this elaborate conspiracy to not-pay £2.50 for a few hours before eventually paying the full daily rate anyway.

    I'm still finding this whole process incredibly difficult - and has driven my depression and anxiety off the charts :(
  • Beehj84
    Beehj84 Posts: 30 Forumite
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    Okay, so trying to keep things as concise as possible, and using the concise template (adding in my defense at point 7 and 9 for the costs - should I include court and solicitor fees, as the total is 334.28?):

    IN THE COUNTY COURT

    CLAIM No: xxxxxxxxxx

    BETWEEN:

    XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX LTD (Claimant)

    -and-

    xxxxxxxxxxxx (Defendant)

    ________________________________________
    DEFENCE
    ________________________________________

    1. The Defendant denies that the Claimant is entitled to relief in the sum claimed, or at all.

    2. The facts are that the vehicle, registration XXXX, of which the Defendant was the registered keeper, was parked on the material date in a marked bay at XXXX, and had a valid permit to be parked in that bay.

    3. The Particulars of Claim state that the Defendant XXXXXXX was the registered keeper and/or the driver of the vehicle XXXXXXX;. These assertions indicate that the Claimant has failed to identify a Cause of Action, and is simply offering a menu of choices. As such, the Claim fails to comply with Civil Procedure Rule 16.4, or with Civil Practice Direction 16, paras. 7.3 to 7.5. Further, the particulars of the claim do not meet the requirements of Practice Direction 16 7.5 as there is nothing which specifies how the terms were breached.

    4. Due to the sparseness of the particulars, it is unclear as to what legal basis the claim is brought, whether for breach of contract, contractual liability, or trespass. However, it is denied that the Defendant, or any driver of the vehicle, entered into any contractual agreement with the Claimant, whether express, implied, or by conduct.

    5. Further and in the alternative, it is denied that the claimant's signage sets out the terms in a sufficiently clear manner which would be capable of binding any reasonable person reading them. They merely state that vehicles must be parked correctly within their allocated parking bay, giving no definition of the term 'correctly parked', nor indicating which bays are allocated to whom.

    6. The terms on the Claimant's signage are also displayed in a font which is too small to be read from a passing vehicle, and is in such a position that anyone attempting to read the tiny font would be unable to do so easily. It is, therefore, denied that the Claimant's signage is capable of creating a legally binding contract.

    7. The Defendant attempted to pay but was frustrated by the Claimant’s payment system, which was unreachable by the Defendant at the time of entry. Further, no alternative payment methods like the obvious cash-based pay and display system were available for use. The full daily rate was paid a matter of hours after entry regardless – no attempt to avoid responsibility of payment was made.

    8. The Claimant is put to strict proof that it has sufficient proprietary interest in the land, or that it has the necessary authorisation from the landowner to issue parking charge notices, and to pursue payment by means of litigation.

    9. The Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4, at Section 4(5) states that the maximum sum that may be recovered from the keeper is the charge stated on the Notice to Keeper, in this case £100. The claim includes an additional £159.28, for which no calculation or explanation is given, and which appears to be an attempt at double recovery.

    10. In summary, it is the Defendant's position that the claim discloses no cause of action, is without merit, and has no real prospect of success. Accordingly, the Court is invited to strike out the claim of its own initiative, using its case management powers pursuant to CPR 3.4.

    I believe the facts contained in this Defence are true.

    Name
    Signature
    Date
  • Beehj84
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    So does anyone have some suggestions regarding the above defence? I don't feel like that's sufficient at all - am I way off base here?

    Cheers
  • Beehj84
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    So I pretty much have to send whatever I have today. Any suggestions at all will be deeply appreciated at this point. Feeling pretty concerned with it all at this point frankly ...
  • nosferatu1001
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    Yeah, it was a weekend.
    Not eveyrone is around on a weekend

    Why are you feeling concerned? Given this is YOUR defence, you need to be comfortable with it. I doubt if you are concerned it i sabout every element, so be specific. Noones going to go through a whole defence to work out what we think you might have an issue with. Waste of time.
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