Project Solar - am I getting ripped off? HELP!!

Zarch · 6 July 2018 at 3:16PM

Martyn1981 wrote: »

The i-boost and boiler bit makes no sense to me, but perhaps it's something new ........ but ..... hmm.

"Narrowing the pipes" bit concerned me..... !?!?

As far as i'm aware, iBoost can't bring any benefits to a combi boiler system.

https://www.marlec.co.uk/product/solar-iboost/?v=79cba1185463

You need a water tank don't you?

dan318064 · 6 July 2018 at 3:43PM

Yes, it comes with a 6.5K battery storage.

Martyn1981 · 6 July 2018 at 4:08PM

dan318064 wrote: »

Yes, it comes with a 6.5K battery storage.

Apologies but I'm going to be really pedantic here. Is it 6.5kW, as I've been reading up and can see that their systems can charge discharge at 6kW, or is it 6.5kWh?

The h is really important as kW is power, and kWh is energy. So the h means storage in this context.

In which case £9k doesn't exactly sound cheap, but I don't think it's particularly expensive either with 310Wp Q cell panels, and 6.5kWh of storage.

I assume the V-O Eco Max is some sort of voltage optimiser, so strip that and the i-boost out and suggest £8k .... perhaps?

BTW - Certainly an interesting package, nice one to ponder that.

pinnks · 6 July 2018 at 4:47PM

The iBoost has nothing to do with boiler control. It is just a clever switch, as are all other diverters. Mine is the immerSUN.

They measure what is being generated v what is being used and push the rest out to a resistive load (immersion heater, underfloor heating, kettle, toaster, oil-filled radiators and the like). This way you maximise own use without risk of importing electricity to feed your, say, 3kW heating element. To work as designed for water heating you therefore need a tank with heater element.

The immerSUN also has the ability to simply switch non-resistive loads on but that really is just a switch - when production passes a certain level something is switched on, irrespective of whether that would cause you to import electricity. This is really intended for low-power things like a destratification pump on your hot water tank. Not sure if the iBoost has such functionality. If it does I guess it could control a boiler but hardly the intended purpose or anything I have ever heard from the lips of those selling such devices...

And the reference to narrowing pipes is complete nonsense and would make me wonder whether the whole quote is quite what it seems as £8+k for all of that is pretty good given the cost of batteries.

Maybe have another read of that part of your quote and post a bit more info on the iBoost proposal here to let folks comment in a more informed manner?

dan318064 · 7 July 2018 at 9:14AM

Martyn1981 wrote: »

is it 6.5kWh?
The h is really important as kW is power, and kWh is energy. So the h means storage in this context.

My apologies, yes, there is the crucial h. I've just been emailed a proper quote and it states that the Battery Storage System Size 6.5KWH.

dan318064 · 7 July 2018 at 9:37AM

pinnks wrote: »

And the reference to narrowing pipes is complete nonsense and would make me wonder whether the whole quote is quite what it seems as £8+k for all of that is pretty good given the cost of batteries.

Maybe have another read of that part of your quote and post a bit more info on the iBoost proposal here to let folks comment in a more informed manner?

You're right, the narrowing pipes thing is nonsense, that was me simplifying his explanation really badly. He said that the way the iBoost is designed it can work with a combi boiler by restricting the flow of energy in and out of the boiler. He said that combi boilers tend to use a far higher level of energy than they need and the iBoost can read that and restrict it down to the minimum level that it can still work at.
really sorry, even that explanation is poor, but you know what its like when someone visits you for an hour and a half, bombards you with facts and figures (not my forte sadly) and then you try and dig out the gist of what they said after!

He's emailed through the proper quote now, so I can list the elements correctly now.
I'd be interested to know people's reaction.

Do I need to reach for my barge pole again?!

Solar Panels 16x 310W Q Cells-Q-PEAK DUO-G5
Inverter 1x SolaX Hybrid Inverter SK-SU 5000E
Voltage Optimiser Eco Max
Hot Water Control I-Boost
Generation Meter Yes
Mounting Kit Yes
Isolator Switches 4
Cable & Connectors Yes
Remote Monitoring Yes (SolaX online Monitoring)
EPC yes
DNO Application yes
Battery Storage System ( SolaX Hybrid) SolaX LG Chem
Solar PV System Size 5Kwh plus 19.3%
Battery Storage System Size 6.5KWH

Total £8,997

Just as an aside, I am thinking of changing to an EV and as the system has an inverter in it he said that I would be able to run a charging point straight off it, which sounded a bonus.

Martyn1981 · 7 July 2018 at 10:06AM

dan318064 wrote: »

My apologies, yes, there is the crucial h. I've just been emailed a proper quote and it states that the Battery Storage System Size 6.5KWH.

Cheers, that improves the deal a lot. Also 6.5kWh makes sense as that matches one of the LG battery packs that Solax suggests.

Personal opinion here, and mostly from the gut, but that PV system with those panels would be good at £6k, and I suspect the battery adds about £3k.

So that's a good start. Stripping off some unwanted baggage gives you a friendly opening to counter with £8k since there should be cost savings of doing the batt and PV at the same time.

This does however depend on whether you want to spend ~£3k on a battery, and if you'll be using any finance.

Sorry to be unclear, but it's sort of a decent deal if that's what you want, or a bit expensive if you are being sold up.

At least I've stopped being grumpy and negative!

Martyn1981 · 7 July 2018 at 10:13AM

dan318064 wrote: »

Battery Storage System ( SolaX Hybrid) SolaX LG Chem

Doh! I should have read on before posting.

dan318064 wrote: »

Just as an aside, I am thinking of changing to an EV and as the system has an inverter in it he said that I would be able to run a charging point straight off it, which sounded a bonus.

Which has changed my mind about not suggesting something else.

In that case, a larger battery might be justified? I was going to suggest the Tesla Powerwall II which has 13.5kWh useable, so you'd probably have enough spare to charge the car after allowing for household consumption. BTW, that's the charge the car a bit each day, not all in one go.

The price is around £6k plus install and local permitting, but that's VAT at 20%, whilst you'd be at 5% if installed with PV, and the fitting costs/permitting* will already be in the existing quote.

*As the PWII can discharge at more than 3.68kW it also needs DNO permission (I understand) but that'll be within the quote you already have, as it's mentioned.

Just a thought?

Zarch · 7 July 2018 at 10:22AM

Sounds like the battery is this...... https://www.cclcomponents.com/lg-chem-48v-resu-6-5kwh-lithium-battery?gclid=Cj0KCQjwyYHaBRDvARIsAHkAXcvDfGwIoW-_-oUVbQIwz3KtuPTmCwo07Po1nhuN2ht_s-PcagFU2sMaAlv2EALw_wcB

As Martyn says, puts the Solar bits without battery around £6k.

But still don't know why he's selling you a iBoost (£300?) as you've got a Combi.
Plus, i'm not convinced you'll see the benefit of the Eco Max (£300?) thingy from what i've read either?

Maybe get a quote without those? Think it might look ok after that?

Has he provided FIT figures and usage calcs etc? How many years does it say it will take to break even?

For 5kWh system without the battery and at a £5.5k install price i'd say around 9 to 10 years based on current FIT figures. Obviously, how much you consume of what you use may affect, but not by too much.

dan318064 · 7 July 2018 at 7:46PM

Zarch wrote: »

But still don't know why he's selling you a iBoost (£300?) as you've got a Combi.
Plus, i'm not convinced you'll see the benefit of the Eco Max (£300?) thingy from what i've read either?
Maybe get a quote without those? Think it might look ok after that?
Has he provided FIT figures and usage calcs etc? How many years does it say it will take to break even?

Ok, here we go. He's knocked off £500 for the removal of the voltage optimiser and given an explanation for the i-Boost.
I'll admit slight ignorance of how this will work with a combi but maybe you guys can make sense of it. If it looks like a loose I'll ask him to remove that from the quote.

I don't really know how these forums work but I hope it's ok using you as a soundboard? I don't really know enough about this as it's early days for us but I hope you don't mind me garnering your opinion as its been invaluable so far.

So, I asked him about the i-Boost and if he could provided us with FIT figures and usage calcs, plus also how many years would it take for us to break even on our investment and this is his reply....

Mains Supply - 240V AC 50Hz 1Ph
Consumption - 3VA
Switching Mode - Volt Free
Switching Current - 3A
Boiler Suitability - Single small domestic boiler
Standard Equipment - Main Controller, Flow Sensor, Return Sensor, Mains Harness
User Adjustments - Active/Bypass Switch
Viewing Indications - Current Mode, Systems Temperatures

Any feedback again appreciated.

Project Solar - am I getting ripped off? HELP!!

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