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  • FIRST POST
    • fallen121
    • By fallen121 9th Sep 19, 8:19 PM
    • 818Posts
    • 703Thanks
    fallen121
    Is a 30 Day Limit on Faulty Goods Legal?
    • #1
    • 9th Sep 19, 8:19 PM
    Is a 30 Day Limit on Faulty Goods Legal? 9th Sep 19 at 8:19 PM
    Infinity Links Charging Bracelets
    https://infinitylinksnow.com

    The bracelets on this site are very fashionable and offer a portable means of recharging your mobile phone on the move. And as they cost the best part of £40 they are an expensive luxury. I was lucky enough to get one for the price of postage but it stopped working after a couple of months.

    According to the returns policy on their website the company offer change of mind returns within 30 days but faulty goods are shown to be an exception to this policy. At least that was my interpretation. Imagine my surprise when I contacted the company to ask about my faulty bracelet to be told that FAULTY goods need to be returned within the 30 day period also. I've attached a screenshot of the returns policy on their website:

    https://photos.google.com/photo/AF1QipPi3QHPTw1RQnLgq4DpGCChxWP0kvJZkPuKtoTr

    I don't think there is any issue with the 30 day return policy but is it actually legal to imply that faulty goods are an exception to this policy and then, when a customer complains about a faulty item and wants to return it, impose the same 30 day limit which their website implies applies only to change of mind or unwanted gift type returns?

    The reason I'm raising this is that although I didn't pay full price for my bracelet a customer considering laying out £40 cash for one of these might look at the returns policy and believe, as I did, that they are covered if the bracelet goes wrong because faulty goods are listed under the heading, "Exceptions".

    I clearly wouldn't expect a company to refund or replace after a year but I've had my bracelet about ten weeks and it's as dead as a dodo and the company are telling me "tough luck, mate" because I bought it over 30 days ago!
    Last edited by fallen121; 09-09-2019 at 8:22 PM.
Page 1
    • unholyangel
    • By unholyangel 9th Sep 19, 8:44 PM
    • 13,974 Posts
    • 11,226 Thanks
    unholyangel
    • #2
    • 9th Sep 19, 8:44 PM
    • #2
    • 9th Sep 19, 8:44 PM
    Are you sure they're a UK company? The WHOIS seems to state the registrant is in arizona.

    The website doesn't have anything proper until you go to the cart when it has T&C's for a company who's registered address is one that has been linked to companies who scammed people.

    Which isn't surprising given the company that really operate from the address sell their "business to business" service as a "scam your customers into thinking you have legitimate business premises when you really operate from your mums house". All for the low low price of £49.99 (plus VAT) a year.
    Money doesn't solve poverty.....it creates it.
    • hollydays
    • By hollydays 9th Sep 19, 9:08 PM
    • 17,719 Posts
    • 13,829 Thanks
    hollydays
    • #3
    • 9th Sep 19, 9:08 PM
    • #3
    • 9th Sep 19, 9:08 PM
    Former car dealers , with a mate who knows about computers,
    Yes it's a uk company

    Most people are wary online of things that are deemed " fashionable", as it equates to get rich quick.
    Very very basic website.
    Probably Chinese rip off goods.
    If it seems too good too be true..
    £40 isn't luxury
    Last edited by hollydays; 09-09-2019 at 9:13 PM.
    • Takmon
    • By Takmon 10th Sep 19, 8:37 AM
    • 825 Posts
    • 829 Thanks
    Takmon
    • #4
    • 10th Sep 19, 8:37 AM
    • #4
    • 10th Sep 19, 8:37 AM
    Infinity Links Charging Bracelets
    https://infinitylinksnow.com

    The bracelets on this site are very fashionable and offer a portable means of recharging your mobile phone on the move. And as they cost the best part of £40 they are an expensive luxury. I was lucky enough to get one for the price of postage but it stopped working after a couple of months.

    According to the returns policy on their website the company offer change of mind returns within 30 days but faulty goods are shown to be an exception to this policy. At least that was my interpretation. Imagine my surprise when I contacted the company to ask about my faulty bracelet to be told that FAULTY goods need to be returned within the 30 day period also. I've attached a screenshot of the returns policy on their website:

    https://photos.google.com/photo/AF1QipPi3QHPTw1RQnLgq4DpGCChxWP0kvJZkPuKtoTr

    I don't think there is any issue with the 30 day return policy but is it actually legal to imply that faulty goods are an exception to this policy and then, when a customer complains about a faulty item and wants to return it, impose the same 30 day limit which their website implies applies only to change of mind or unwanted gift type returns?

    The reason I'm raising this is that although I didn't pay full price for my bracelet a customer considering laying out £40 cash for one of these might look at the returns policy and believe, as I did, that they are covered if the bracelet goes wrong because faulty goods are listed under the heading, "Exceptions".

    I clearly wouldn't expect a company to refund or replace after a year but I've had my bracelet about ten weeks and it's as dead as a dodo and the company are telling me "tough luck, mate" because I bought it over 30 days ago!
    Originally posted by fallen121
    They don't look particularity fashionable to me and look quite cheap. It's a common trick that people fall for when companies sell cheap items for "only the cost of postage" when in fact you can actually get it cheaper than this from other places.

    I've seen similar bracelets on AliExpress starting from a couple of dollars including shipping. So how much did you actually pay for this?.
    • fallen121
    • By fallen121 10th Sep 19, 11:08 AM
    • 818 Posts
    • 703 Thanks
    fallen121
    • #5
    • 10th Sep 19, 11:08 AM
    • #5
    • 10th Sep 19, 11:08 AM
    They don't look particularity fashionable to me and look quite cheap. It's a common trick that people fall for when companies sell cheap items for "only the cost of postage" when in fact you can actually get it cheaper than this from other places.

    I've seen similar bracelets on AliExpress starting from a couple of dollars including shipping. So how much did you actually pay for this?.
    Originally posted by Takmon
    I've seen loads of charging bracelets all over the internet for much cheaper but I liked the look of this one because it was a double loop and also because it's made of leather. A lot of the cheaper bracelets are made of plastic that irritates my skin.

    Postage was £2.99 which compares favourably with the eBay China sellers.

    Does giving you all this information actually help anyone else or contribute to the discussion? Or does it just make you feel superior because you saw one cheaper on AliExpress? I truly appreciate the people that take the trouble to reply, but I do feel sometimes that some respondents on MoneySavingExpert are really more interested in putting people down than actually HELPING or giving good advice.

    I wanted to warn others who might be considering paying full price for one of these bracelets. And also because I was genuinely interested to know whether this company are breaking the law. I realise that there's not a lot that can be done if they are, but it would be helpful to know if a 30 day warranty against faulty goods is legal. It's not something I've really thought about before. You assume most goods carry a one year warranty and that you need to complain within 6 months. Because it's true of most new items priced at £30 or more.

    Under the UK Consumer Rights Act 2015 (previously the Sale of Goods Act 1979), an item should be expected to last for a “reasonable” time. Is 30 days"reasonable"? I don't think so! But I'm not really sure if this law even has any teeth because how on earth would you ever enforce it?
    • Takmon
    • By Takmon 10th Sep 19, 11:56 AM
    • 825 Posts
    • 829 Thanks
    Takmon
    • #6
    • 10th Sep 19, 11:56 AM
    • #6
    • 10th Sep 19, 11:56 AM
    I've seen loads of charging bracelets all over the internet for much cheaper but I liked the look of this one because it was a double loop and also because it's made of leather. A lot of the cheaper bracelets are made of plastic that irritates my skin.

    Postage was £2.99 which compares favourably with the eBay China sellers.

    Does giving you all this information actually help anyone else or contribute to the discussion? Or does it just make you feel superior because you saw one cheaper on AliExpress? I truly appreciate the people that take the trouble to reply, but I do feel sometimes that some respondents on MoneySavingExpert are really more interested in putting people down than actually HELPING or giving good advice.
    Originally posted by fallen121
    Well this is a money saving site so i was pointing out a common "trick" that is used by foreign sellers by only charging the postage on cheap items when in fact that covers the full cost of the item from other sources. You can definitely get a double loop leather one from sites such as AliExpress for a £2.99 price point.

    Not many people know about these kinds of things so any posts that improve awareness is certainly helpful in my book.

    I wanted to warn others who might be considering paying full price for one of these bracelets. And also because I was genuinely interested to know whether this company are breaking the law. I realise that there's not a lot that can be done if they are, but it would be helpful to know if a 30 day warranty against faulty goods is legal. It's not something I've really thought about before. You assume most goods carry a one year warranty and that you need to complain within 6 months. Because it's true of most new items priced at £30 or more.

    Under the UK Consumer Rights Act 2015 (previously the Sale of Goods Act 1979), an item should be expected to last for a “reasonable” time. Is 30 days"reasonable"? I don't think so! But I'm not really sure if this law even has any teeth because how on earth would you ever enforce it?
    Originally posted by fallen121
    You should never assume that goods come with a 1 year warranty unless it explicitly says there is. If something comes with a warranty the company usually likes to make a big deal of it on the packaging/website as a selling point for the product, most items don't.

    Your quoting UK law but the only address we can find for the site is in Arizona so CRA 2015 certainly won't apply there.

    You also need to consider the price you paid so for a £2.99 charging cable to last 30 days; yes i agree that isn't reasonable at all. But you don't even know where this company is based and then if you did you would have to research local laws which isn't really worth it for £2.99.

    Nobody should be buying one of these for £40, especially from a site that gives no details of where they are located.

    For someone with as many posts as yourself i thought you would be more clued up on consumer laws and how to check a website before you buy. But at least you only lost £2.99 (which is nothing at the end of the day) compared to the £40 you could have lost learning this lesson.
    • fallen121
    • By fallen121 10th Sep 19, 12:20 PM
    • 818 Posts
    • 703 Thanks
    fallen121
    • #7
    • 10th Sep 19, 12:20 PM
    • #7
    • 10th Sep 19, 12:20 PM
    I thought you would be more clued up on consumer laws and how to check a website before you buy.
    Originally posted by Takmon
    I'm picking up on this point because as you correctly point out, these threads are about educating people to be aware. And had I bought it on my laptop I would have done all the usual checks. But in order to get this offer I had to use my mobile phone because the offer came through a mobile only app. I had to click a link in the app and then purchase on my mobile. And when you do this you don't have the luxury of browsing the retailer's website.

    I thought as you probably would have done, "What the heck, it's only£2.99". But I have younger friends who don't even USE laptops and do absolutely everything on their mobile phones. And as we're being encouraged to do more and more via mobiles and less and less via laptops and desktops so the opportunities for this type of scam increases. Perhaps we should be making more of this. Mobile phones are being sold as convenient alternatives to the laptop/desktop but we've known for years that they are much less secure and have limited functionality in terms of allowing you to wander off and check stuff out independently.
    • fallen121
    • By fallen121 10th Sep 19, 12:27 PM
    • 818 Posts
    • 703 Thanks
    fallen121
    • #8
    • 10th Sep 19, 12:27 PM
    • #8
    • 10th Sep 19, 12:27 PM
    Your quoting UK law but the only address we can find for the site is in Arizona so CRA 2015 certainly won't apply there.
    Originally posted by Takmon
    Previous poster hollydays stated that they WERE a UK company in a previous post and I'm presuming they have some evidence to support this....?

    I myself have a UK website with GODADDY which is hosted in the USA so the site address isn't always proof of whether or not it's a UK company.

    The company sent me an email from a dot com address which contained the source Content-Language: en-GB. If this email had originated in the US that would have read Content-Language: en-US.

    The company have a video on YouTube which is narrated by someone with a British regional accent. Again not proof it's a UK company, but an indicator that it might be.
    Last edited by fallen121; 10-09-2019 at 12:32 PM.
    • stragglebod
    • By stragglebod 10th Sep 19, 12:50 PM
    • 818 Posts
    • 737 Thanks
    stragglebod
    • #9
    • 10th Sep 19, 12:50 PM
    • #9
    • 10th Sep 19, 12:50 PM
    They're a UK company

    https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/11268504

    When their last accounts were filed in March they had assets of £1103. I'm sure none of which can be found at their registered address which is a virtual office.

    I'd not rest too much hope on being able to enforce a CCJ against them.
    • lindens
    • By lindens 10th Sep 19, 12:57 PM
    • 2,503 Posts
    • 7,254 Thanks
    lindens
    If they are a UK company their website is not within the law. Distance selling regulations state a website must have a UK name address on their website and a way of contact such as phone number or email address. This site has neither.
    They must also by law accept change of mind returns within a 14 day (minimum)period.
    I'm not sure the 30 day return policy would stand up either with regards to faulty goods. I would be getting in touch with trading standards if this were me.
    You're not your * could have not of * Debt not dept *
    • fallen121
    • By fallen121 10th Sep 19, 2:47 PM
    • 818 Posts
    • 703 Thanks
    fallen121
    If they are a UK company their website is not within the law. Distance selling regulations state a website must have a UK name address on their website and a way of contact such as phone number or email address. This site has neither.
    Originally posted by lindens
    All these things are true. The problem is that UK laws of this nature are next to impossible to enforce because no-one is remotely interested in enforcing them and there's no reliable means of reporting companies that break them. We have Ombudsmen, Regulators and Agencies of almost every description employing people to "enforce" these regulations but the reality is they are all hopelessly overworked, impossible to contact and only really interested in going after the big guys. The law has no teeth, so small companies like this have no interest or incentive to comply or abide by regulations of any description and can do as they like.
    • Takmon
    • By Takmon 11th Sep 19, 8:52 AM
    • 825 Posts
    • 829 Thanks
    Takmon
    I'm picking up on this point because as you correctly point out, these threads are about educating people to be aware. And had I bought it on my laptop I would have done all the usual checks. But in order to get this offer I had to use my mobile phone because the offer came through a mobile only app. I had to click a link in the app and then purchase on my mobile. And when you do this you don't have the luxury of browsing the retailer's website.
    Originally posted by fallen121
    So the link you clicked and bought it from didn't go to the website you linked too in the OP?

    I thought as you probably would have done, "What the heck, it's only£2.99". But I have younger friends who don't even USE laptops and do absolutely everything on their mobile phones. And as we're being encouraged to do more and more via mobiles and less and less via laptops and desktops so the opportunities for this type of scam increases. Perhaps we should be making more of this. Mobile phones are being sold as convenient alternatives to the laptop/desktop but we've known for years that they are much less secure and have limited functionality in terms of allowing you to wander off and check stuff out independently.
    Originally posted by fallen121
    I disagree that mobile phones are less secure, if anything i would say they are more secure because they are more locked down and far less likely to get viruses and malware. Banks and other similar organisations also see them as more secure that's why they are used a 2FA devices and when you install the banking app you have less security to go through to access your account.

    They can be slightly more difficult to use when you want to check out a website but i often use desktop view on my mobile to see website fully. There isn't really much you can't do on a mobile device these days but a lot of people would never bother.
    • fallen121
    • By fallen121 11th Sep 19, 9:21 AM
    • 818 Posts
    • 703 Thanks
    fallen121
    So the link you clicked and bought it from didn't go to the website you linked to in the OP?
    Originally posted by Takmon
    No it didn't. The offer came via a fitness app which I use which has "partnered" with the seller and the purchase was carried out via a series of popup windows hosted by the app which required you to click radio buttons to select the size, colour etc. You didn't get to pick from the whole range like you do on the website, just a limited selection. No doubt the ones they couldn't shift. No money changed hands other than for the postage where I was transferred to Paypal.
    Last edited by fallen121; 11-09-2019 at 10:42 AM.
    • fallen121
    • By fallen121 11th Sep 19, 10:50 AM
    • 818 Posts
    • 703 Thanks
    fallen121
    Getting a bit bored of everything I say being picked over and challenged by being quoted in bold type. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but I don't really think this is developing into anything particularly useful and I don't feel that constantly being asked to justify everything I say and do is really helping to answer the question I originally posed.

    Thanks to everyone who provided information about the company registration, legal and consumer rights and distance selling regulations. This has been useful and I really appreciate it.

    Everyone else attempting to assert their superiority - yes, you're completely right and I'm completely stupid, wrong and misinformed. There....hope you feel better now.
    • Takmon
    • By Takmon 11th Sep 19, 11:17 AM
    • 825 Posts
    • 829 Thanks
    Takmon
    Getting a bit bored of everything I say being picked over and challenged by being quoted in bold type. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but I don't really think this is developing into anything particularly useful and I don't feel that constantly being asked to justify everything I say and do is really helping to answer the question I originally posed.
    Originally posted by fallen121
    When i quote you i highlight the relevant bits i'm referring to in bold so you can quickly see what my response is too. You shouldn't consider this as something negative.

    Thanks to everyone who provided information about the company registration, legal and consumer rights and distance selling regulations. This has been useful and I really appreciate it.

    Everyone else attempting to assert their superiority - yes, you're completely right and I'm completely stupid, wrong and misinformed. There....hope you feel better now.
    Originally posted by fallen121
    I'm asking you questions so i can understand the situation, that's what a discussion forum is for.

    First you started off by posting a website and now it turns out you actually didn't buy from that website at all, we wouldn't have known that if i didn't ask the questions i did.
    • Moneyineptitude
    • By Moneyineptitude 11th Sep 19, 9:38 PM
    • 24,746 Posts
    • 14,282 Thanks
    Moneyineptitude
    Getting a bit bored of everything I say being picked over and challenged
    Originally posted by fallen121
    Have you, or have you not, lost just £2.99??
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