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  • FIRST POST
    • Chrysalis
    • By Chrysalis 9th Sep 19, 1:25 AM
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    Chrysalis
    rights under manufacturer warranty
    • #1
    • 9th Sep 19, 1:25 AM
    rights under manufacturer warranty 9th Sep 19 at 1:25 AM
    Most consumer rights information sites seem to heavily concentrate on the retailer.

    I cannot find answers to the following questions.

    Does section 75 have an expiry date?
    Does section 75 have any meaning on manufacturer warranties? (not retailer warranty).
    If section 75 has no meaning, and a manufacturer claims a broken device isnt broken what power do I have as a consumer to force the manufacturer into action?
    If the manufacturer is overseas, are UK consumer laws king?
Page 1
    • unholyangel
    • By unholyangel 9th Sep 19, 5:52 AM
    • 13,974 Posts
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    unholyangel
    • #2
    • 9th Sep 19, 5:52 AM
    • #2
    • 9th Sep 19, 5:52 AM
    You have no contract with the manufacturer - thats why consumer rights focus on the retailer.

    Section 75 gives you the same rights against the creditor as you have against the retailer.

    A warranty can be binding, but on the party that offered it.

    Why are you chasing the manufacturer rather than the retailer?
    Money doesn't solve poverty.....it creates it.
    • JJ Egan
    • By JJ Egan 9th Sep 19, 7:46 AM
    • 13,320 Posts
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    JJ Egan
    • #3
    • 9th Sep 19, 7:46 AM
    • #3
    • 9th Sep 19, 7:46 AM
    Warranty is basically a goodwill extra subject to its own terms and conditions .


    <If the manufacturer is overseas, are UK consumer laws king?>>
    They are anyway if the vendor is in the UK .


    <manufacturer claims a broken device isnt broken what power do I have as a consumer to force the manufacturer into action?>


    Very little as your rights under Consumer Law are against the vendor .
    Though nothing to stop you complaining to the manufacturer .
    • Chrysalis
    • By Chrysalis 10th Sep 19, 3:24 PM
    • 2,352 Posts
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    Chrysalis
    • #4
    • 10th Sep 19, 3:24 PM
    • #4
    • 10th Sep 19, 3:24 PM
    You have no contract with the manufacturer - thats why consumer rights focus on the retailer.

    Section 75 gives you the same rights against the creditor as you have against the retailer.

    A warranty can be binding, but on the party that offered it.

    Why are you chasing the manufacturer rather than the retailer?
    Originally posted by unholyangel
    Because its a 10 year manufacturer warranty well outside of the retail warranty period.

    So clarification.

    Product brought from retailer.
    On all advertising from the product, from promotional campaigns, to packaging manufacturer (Samsung) offers 10 year warranty on product. This obviously gives them sales as people will assume they have some kind of protection for 10 years if product breaks due to manufacturing defect. On product page on the retailer, some mention it some dont, amazon uk e.g. dont.

    So which of these 3 scenarios applies?

    1 - Retailer has to honour manufacturer warranty go to retailer.
    2 - Manufacturer has to honour its own warranty go to manufacturer.
    3 - Manufacturer Warranties are not recognised legally in the UK, and its a goodwill gesture only, tough luck.
    Last edited by Chrysalis; 10-09-2019 at 3:32 PM.
    • Chrysalis
    • By Chrysalis 10th Sep 19, 3:25 PM
    • 2,352 Posts
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    Chrysalis
    • #5
    • 10th Sep 19, 3:25 PM
    • #5
    • 10th Sep 19, 3:25 PM
    Warranty is basically a goodwill extra subject to its own terms and conditions .


    <If the manufacturer is overseas, are UK consumer laws king?>>
    They are anyway if the vendor is in the UK .


    <manufacturer claims a broken device isnt broken what power do I have as a consumer to force the manufacturer into action?>


    Very little as your rights under Consumer Law are against the vendor .
    Though nothing to stop you complaining to the manufacturer .
    Originally posted by JJ Egan
    So basically a manufacturer warranty means nothing in terms of legal obligation?

    I think people have looked at my question as if its strange, you guys have never brought a product before which has a manufacturer warranty, that extends past retail warranty? If this has no legal bearing the consumer sites should most definitely mention it to warn people to not be fooled by these non legally binding terms. As make no mistake this is common practice to have manufacturer warranties on electrical goods. So for a consumer site to not address "common practice" is stupid.
    Last edited by Chrysalis; 10-09-2019 at 3:35 PM.
    • Carrot007
    • By Carrot007 10th Sep 19, 3:32 PM
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    Carrot007
    • #6
    • 10th Sep 19, 3:32 PM
    • #6
    • 10th Sep 19, 3:32 PM
    So basically a manufacturer warranty means nothing in terms of legal obligation?
    Originally posted by Chrysalis

    Yes. (something something).
    • Chrysalis
    • By Chrysalis 10th Sep 19, 3:42 PM
    • 2,352 Posts
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    Chrysalis
    • #7
    • 10th Sep 19, 3:42 PM
    • #7
    • 10th Sep 19, 3:42 PM
    whats the something something?

    I am sat here scratching my head wondering how this has simply been accepted, so I could sell something claiming 100 year warranty, and then do nothing and no one can make a legal claim against me, and meanwhile I sell a million because people think they have a lifetime warranty against failure.

    Thanks for the heads up, I will contact these sites to ask them to add a warning, as I think simply not mentioning is not the right way to go, not mentioning it doesnt inform people that there is no legal rights from a manufacturer warranty.
    • NCC-1701
    • By NCC-1701 10th Sep 19, 3:43 PM
    • 458 Posts
    • 737 Thanks
    NCC-1701
    • #8
    • 10th Sep 19, 3:43 PM
    • #8
    • 10th Sep 19, 3:43 PM
    What is it that you 'brought'? Why is there a difference of opinion as to it being broken or not?
    • k3lvc
    • By k3lvc 10th Sep 19, 3:47 PM
    • 2,755 Posts
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    k3lvc
    • #9
    • 10th Sep 19, 3:47 PM
    • #9
    • 10th Sep 19, 3:47 PM
    I've had a Miele washer/dryer with 10yr warranty - no issues at all in terms of exercising this direct with Miele (and no need to involve retailer in any way)


    What exactly is your issue with the Samsung appliance and who are you talking to to get it resolved (and, as required by some, did you register the warranty after you bought the product ?)
    • Chrysalis
    • By Chrysalis 10th Sep 19, 3:47 PM
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    Chrysalis
    Its a samsung 850 pro SSD. (computer flash storage component).

    These come with a manufacturer 10 year warranty of either 10 years or a certain usage limit. Whichever comes first.

    They have actually now backed down and are honouring the warranty, but there "was" a difference of opinion, and googling shows others have had the same issues with samsung as well.

    Initially it had early signs of failure and had symptoms like degraded performance, errors when in operation, and randomly not working at all (requiring power cycles, akin to have to try to get your tv to work having to power cycle it again and again).

    They refused to accept it as faulty, but then when it completely failed which was obviously inevitable they backed down.

    Samsung dont require registration (just proof of purchase during claim), I spoke to their EU flash memory department based in holland.
    Last edited by Chrysalis; 10-09-2019 at 3:54 PM.
    • Aylesbury Duck
    • By Aylesbury Duck 10th Sep 19, 3:54 PM
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    Aylesbury Duck
    I thought that there was a legal obligation, based on the fact that the warranty is a feature of the product that helped sell it? Happy to be corrected if I'm wrong.
    • foxtrotoscar
    • By foxtrotoscar 10th Sep 19, 3:55 PM
    • 1,438 Posts
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    foxtrotoscar
    I think rather than refusing to replace it under the 10 year warranty they were unsure it was broken and wouldn't replace it and when they realised it was broken did so, that does seem reasonable.
    • Carrot007
    • By Carrot007 10th Sep 19, 4:17 PM
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    Carrot007
    whats the something something?
    Originally posted by Chrysalis

    (filler becuase the site hates small answers.)
    • Carrot007
    • By Carrot007 10th Sep 19, 4:21 PM
    • 2,667 Posts
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    Carrot007
    I thought that there was a legal obligation, based on the fact that the warranty is a feature of the product that helped sell it? Happy to be corrected if I'm wrong.
    Originally posted by Aylesbury Duck

    Yes but you can only hold the seller to this.


    So go back to the seller and say samsung refuse to honour the warranty they sold and see what they say.


    They may ask for proof they said this when you bought.


    They may side with samsung as an expert.


    No saying you are in the wrong just saying it's gonna be hard. And maybe costly. And the price has come down a lot for better.
    • born again
    • By born again 10th Sep 19, 5:14 PM
    • 341 Posts
    • 151 Thanks
    born again
    I cannot find answers to the following questions.

    Does section 75 have an expiry date?
    Originally posted by Chrysalis
    6 Years

    Does section 75 have any meaning on manufacturer warranties? (not retailer warranty).
    Originally posted by Chrysalis
    If they have breached contract or misrepresentation of said contract. You would have to prove.

    If section 75 has no meaning, and a manufacturer claims a broken device isnt broken what power do I have as a consumer to force the manufacturer into action?
    If the manufacturer is overseas, are UK consumer laws king?
    Originally posted by Chrysalis
    Well for S75 you would have to prove the issue (3rd party report) Pretty much the same as you would with the retailer.
    So you would need to take it a legal route. Small claims etc.
    • Chrysalis
    • By Chrysalis 10th Sep 19, 5:39 PM
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    • 1,131 Thanks
    Chrysalis
    I think rather than refusing to replace it under the 10 year warranty they were unsure it was broken and wouldn't replace it and when they realised it was broken did so, that does seem reasonable.
    Originally posted by foxtrotoscar
    My reasoning is different, the approach seems to be they only consider something broken when it is 100% non functioning, if it can be used albeit only some of the time and at a reduced capacity its considered not broken. Thats the impression I got from my dialogue with them.

    I dont know how you could be unsure it was broken. It was clearly not operating in its normal capacity, and when it was first returned they were unable to provide "any" explanation for the behaviour.

    They ended up paying an extra round of shipping both ways because of their stubbornness.

    However my answer has been given, I now know where I stand on manufacturer warranties and wont put as much value on them in future.
    • unholyangel
    • By unholyangel 10th Sep 19, 6:49 PM
    • 13,974 Posts
    • 11,226 Thanks
    unholyangel
    So which of these 3 scenarios applies?

    1 - Retailer has to honour manufacturer warranty go to retailer.
    2 - Manufacturer has to honour its own warranty go to manufacturer.
    3 - Manufacturer Warranties are not recognised legally in the UK, and its a goodwill gesture only, tough luck.
    Originally posted by Chrysalis
    2. The manufacturer is the one offering the warranty so its binding on them. Although the warranty cannot be used to lessen your statutory rights (guarantee operating as an exclusion clause).

    Bear in mind a warranty can be offered on pretty much any terms they see fit as it is in addition to your statutory rights. So if they only want to offer refurbs or partial refunds or only want to cover goods that are completely broken etc, they can.
    Money doesn't solve poverty.....it creates it.
    • Chrysalis
    • By Chrysalis 10th Sep 19, 10:02 PM
    • 2,352 Posts
    • 1,131 Thanks
    Chrysalis
    Right, trying to get a consistent answer here as we have gone from been goodwill only to now been binding.

    I understand a manufacturer warranty doesnt need to match the legal retail warranty.

    For reference I did look at samsung's t&c for their manufacturer warranty on SSD's.

    There is things there that one might expect, for e.g. if you buy a consumer SSD and they find you use it in a manner that a business would use it then you void the warranty, if you package it incorrectly when returning it to samsung, then you void the warranty. I couldnt find anything related to how broken the product has to be to be deemed covered, it doesnt say either way, its simply not defined. But what it does say is that samsung have sole discretion in deciding if a product is damaged. Which obviously pretty much allows them to do what they want hence my queries on legal obligations.

    It sounds like if a warranty offer is made it is binding, but if I understand you right, the way that warranty is covered can be anything the manufacturer wants. There is no minimum legal standard, have I understood that right?
    • unholyangel
    • By unholyangel 10th Sep 19, 10:16 PM
    • 13,974 Posts
    • 11,226 Thanks
    unholyangel
    Right, trying to get a consistent answer here as we have gone from been goodwill only to now been binding.

    I understand a manufacturer warranty doesnt need to match the legal retail warranty.

    For reference I did look at samsung's t&c for their manufacturer warranty on SSD's.

    There is things there that one might expect, for e.g. if you buy a consumer SSD and they find you use it in a manner that a business would use it then you void the warranty, if you package it incorrectly when returning it to samsung, then you void the warranty. I couldnt find anything related to how broken the product has to be to be deemed covered, it doesnt say either way, its simply not defined. But what it does say is that samsung have sole discretion in deciding if a product is damaged. Which obviously pretty much allows them to do what they want hence my queries on legal obligations.

    It sounds like if a warranty offer is made it is binding, but if I understand you right, the way that warranty is covered can be anything the manufacturer wants. There is no minimum legal standard, have I understood that right?
    Originally posted by Chrysalis
    http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2015/15/section/30/enacted


    And yes, no minimum legal standard. They don't need to provide one at all. Just consumers may not have any confidence in a brand that didn't offer one.
    Money doesn't solve poverty.....it creates it.
    • mije1983
    • By mije1983 10th Sep 19, 10:22 PM
    • 3,576 Posts
    • 20,325 Thanks
    mije1983
    if I understand you right, the way that warranty is covered can be anything the manufacturer wants. There is no minimum legal standard, have I understood that right?
    Originally posted by Chrysalis

    Yes as it is above and beyond your legal rights. They don't have to offer a warranty at all if they decide not to.

    So if Samsung offered the warranty on condition that you had to turn up outside their office in South Korea holding 2 golden eagles and singing the national anthem while standing on one leg, then that is what you would have to do.

    Obviously my example is far fetched, but you get my meaning.

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