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  • FIRST POST
    • 8bits
    • By 8bits 29th Aug 19, 3:21 PM
    • 30Posts
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    8bits
    CIFAS warning - cannot open bank accounts
    • #1
    • 29th Aug 19, 3:21 PM
    CIFAS warning - cannot open bank accounts 29th Aug 19 at 3:21 PM
    Hi,
    About one year ago I exchanged my foreign driving license with a UK one. In the meantime I ordered a cheque book from my bank to pay DVLA. Both never arrived and were used to commit a cheque fraud of about 10k. This was reported to the police.



    This month I wanted to changed bank accounts (for ethical reasons) and tried to open current accounts online in BankA and BankB. Both were declined and I got CIFAS warnings from them on my credit file. I've called BankA, they told me they can't open an account for me.


    What am I supposed to do if I want to change banks? How having my name in a CIFAS database will affect my life in the future? Why do the banks declined my application ? Can't they double check my ID/proof of address physically?
    Last edited by 8bits; 01-10-2019 at 9:11 PM.
Page 1
    • 18cc
    • By 18cc 29th Aug 19, 4:17 PM
    • 1,834 Posts
    • 1,351 Thanks
    18cc
    • #2
    • 29th Aug 19, 4:17 PM
    • #2
    • 29th Aug 19, 4:17 PM
    First thing to do is to get a copy of your CIFAS record.

    If you are on there then you will be able to open a bank account but you will have to wait 6 years
    • 8bits
    • By 8bits 29th Aug 19, 4:25 PM
    • 30 Posts
    • 7 Thanks
    8bits
    • #3
    • 29th Aug 19, 4:25 PM
    • #3
    • 29th Aug 19, 4:25 PM
    Thanks. Do you mean a DSAR?

    The CIFAS website says:

    If you are looking to check whether you have been registered with us as a victim of fraud, you should check your credit report rather than make a Data Subject Access Request. Get in touch with any of the main credit reference agencies; your report will show Cifas 'victim markers' as well as lots of other useful information that will help you to spot if a fraudster is attempting to use your identity.
    Victim markers – ‘Victim of Impersonation’ and ‘Victim of Takeover’ – remain in place for 13 months from the date of submission. Both will appear on credit reports.

    This is indeed the case, it is written in my credit report as "Victim of impersonation". But then what do I do with that?
    • Ed-1
    • By Ed-1 29th Aug 19, 4:26 PM
    • 2,650 Posts
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    Ed-1
    • #4
    • 29th Aug 19, 4:26 PM
    • #4
    • 29th Aug 19, 4:26 PM
    Thanks. Do you mean a DSAR?


    The CIFAS website says






    This is indeed the case, it is written in my credit report as "Victim of impersonation". Do I still need to wait for 6 years? That is really annoying, especially being the victim here.
    Originally posted by 8bits
    Send a DSAR to CIFAS to see if you have any other categories of CIFAS marker on there. Only 'victim' categories will display on credit files.
    • Willing2Learn
    • By Willing2Learn 29th Aug 19, 4:28 PM
    • 4,388 Posts
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    Willing2Learn
    • #5
    • 29th Aug 19, 4:28 PM
    • #5
    • 29th Aug 19, 4:28 PM
    Have you checked your three credit files to see if you have CIFAS Victim markers on your file? If you have and there isn't then I recommend submitting a SAR request with CIFAS.

    https://www.cifas.org.uk/contact-us/subject-access-request

    Edit: Oh, I appear to have cross-posted with you both.

    Edit #2: https://www.cifas.org.uk/services/identity-protection/victim-of-impersonation
    Last edited by Willing2Learn; 29-08-2019 at 4:34 PM.
    I work within the voluntary sector, supporting vulnerable people to rebuild their lives.

    I love my job

    • jonnygee2
    • By jonnygee2 29th Aug 19, 5:20 PM
    • 1,520 Posts
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    jonnygee2
    • #6
    • 29th Aug 19, 5:20 PM
    • #6
    • 29th Aug 19, 5:20 PM
    You should not be rejected because of a victim marker. Most likely either:

    - The CIFAS marker on your account is wrong, or
    - You were rejected for a different reason, not related to the victim marker

    Investigate these two possibilities first, by checking your CIFAS record, and asking for clarification from the bank (they might not give any though).
    • 8bits
    • By 8bits 29th Aug 19, 6:14 PM
    • 30 Posts
    • 7 Thanks
    8bits
    • #7
    • 29th Aug 19, 6:14 PM
    • #7
    • 29th Aug 19, 6:14 PM
    Thanks all, this clarifies things. Will request the CIFAS record.
    • DCFC79
    • By DCFC79 29th Aug 19, 8:45 PM
    • 35,061 Posts
    • 22,161 Thanks
    DCFC79
    • #8
    • 29th Aug 19, 8:45 PM
    • #8
    • 29th Aug 19, 8:45 PM
    Keep the thread updated with any news, would be useful to other posters if they have a similar/same issue.
    • 8bits
    • By 8bits 5th Sep 19, 4:23 PM
    • 30 Posts
    • 7 Thanks
    8bits
    • #9
    • 5th Sep 19, 4:23 PM
    • #9
    • 5th Sep 19, 4:23 PM
    A quick update. I am still waiting for my bank statement to arrive to get the CIFAS SAR, but in the meantime, this is what I think happened: it looks like the fraudster coincidentally tried to open bank accounts about 2-3 weeks before me. Very coincidentally, one of the account he tried to open is the same current account I tried to open at BankA. I assume it is the same fraudster who kept my DL. He waited one year after his first cheque fraud (which happened in August 2018) to try opening new accounts. From a fraudster point of view it makes sense to wait one year or so.

    I was confused with the 2 CIFAS warnings I got as I thought they were related to my applications (although one was from a bank I've never dealt with, I assumed it was related), also because it was the first time I've ever had these and so somehow misinterpreted them. But I called one of the bank and they confirmed me the date the fraudster made the application, which cannot be the date I have made my applications. The last few days I have dealt with both BankA and BankB and it looks like my accounts will be opened soon. They also both sent me letters to my address to confirm where I live.
    Last edited by 8bits; 01-10-2019 at 9:11 PM.
    • xlnc99
    • By xlnc99 8th Sep 19, 1:50 AM
    • 427 Posts
    • 51 Thanks
    xlnc99
    Just to clarify - You changed your driving licence and you had to pay the DVLA. So you went an ordered a cheque book to pay them instead of paying online or on the phone......
    • 8bits
    • By 8bits 1st Oct 19, 4:24 PM
    • 30 Posts
    • 7 Thanks
    8bits
    Just to clarify - You changed your driving licence and you had to pay the DVLA. So you went an ordered a cheque book to pay them instead of paying online or on the phone......
    Originally posted by xlnc99
    They were only accepting cheque at that time. Yes, in 2018. Don't ask me why. This is the only cheque I wrote in the last past 10 years.


    ps. that was an exchange of an EU driving license for a UK one, I think the procedure was/is different.
    Last edited by 8bits; 01-10-2019 at 4:27 PM.
    • Ben8282
    • By Ben8282 1st Oct 19, 4:41 PM
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    Ben8282
    There is a glaring irregularity here.
    The cheque book was ordered to pay DVLA but never arrived.
    2018 was last year not decades ago. Of course DVLA accepted other means of payment.
    Also the cheque would have to have been sent off with the licence application, so I am confused as to how the licence was applied for prior to receipt of the cheque book. Furthermore, if you never received the cheque book how could you have written the cheque?
    Your OP clearly states 'both never arrived'.
    You don't give details of this 'cheque fraud'. involving a driving licence and a cheque book which never arrived but you wrote a cheque from, but clearly the bank believed you to be complicit.
    • 8bits
    • By 8bits 1st Oct 19, 8:52 PM
    • 30 Posts
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    8bits
    There is no "glaring irregularity", but since you do not seem to believe me, here is what happened:

    - I decide to exchange my EU DL to a UK one
    - I get the DVLA form by post, which ask to pay the fees by CHEQUE to be SEND by POST along with my EU DL. You *CANNOT* pay online or by phone according to the form.
    - I order a cheque book from my bank especially for this, but never gets it
    - I contact my bank and order a second cheque book from my bank which tells me that it must have been lost -- crazy how banks send cheque book without recorded delivery
    - I get my cheque book and finally send the cheque to DVLA
    - For weeks I am waiting for my DL but it never arrives -- again, crazy how DVLA send ID documents without recorded delivery
    - One day my bank account is debited of ~10k via a cheque transaction
    - I call my bank to tell them I haven't made any cheque of this amount
    - They revert it
    - I contact DVLA about the fact I never received my DL
    - They send me a second UK DL a few weeks later

    End of the story.

    FYI I live in a building where mail theft has happened to many residents.


    Banks do not "believe I am complicit", they just work with CIFAS and know my name is in the database, because the fraud was reported both to the police and action fraud, so they need to double check stuff.
    Last edited by 8bits; 01-10-2019 at 9:14 PM.
    • mwarby
    • By mwarby 1st Oct 19, 9:17 PM
    • 983 Posts
    • 369 Thanks
    mwarby
    You might find it easier to open an account in branch rather than online, as they can see the ID documents. I was rejected by Bank of Scotland online as they couldn't verify my address electronically (I had not long moved) no issue in branch as they had proof of address
    • 8bits
    • By 8bits 1st Oct 19, 9:47 PM
    • 30 Posts
    • 7 Thanks
    8bits
    You might find it easier to open an account in branch rather than online, as they can see the ID documents. I was rejected by Bank of Scotland online as they couldn't verify my address electronically (I had not long moved) no issue in branch as they had proof of address
    Originally posted by mwarby
    Yes, this is exactly what BankA and BankB suggested. I need to go physically with multiple proof of ID/address.
    • pcman1985
    • By pcman1985 2nd Oct 19, 11:31 AM
    • 157 Posts
    • 82 Thanks
    pcman1985
    As you sent of the SAR for CIFAS nearly a month ago, you should have received it by now.

    What does it say on the SAR?
    • MovingForwards
    • By MovingForwards 2nd Oct 19, 1:55 PM
    • 2,320 Posts
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    MovingForwards
    If a cheque book is lost, the banks put a stop on all the cheques in that cheque book and so they would not be able to be cashed.

    What does your your SAR say?

    How long have your been in the UK? Do you have any bank account still? Do you have a credit card? A mobile phone on SIM only or contract (not pay as you go)? Any utility bills in your name? Are you on the electoral roll? If so, have you tried to check your credit history reports with Clearscore, MSE credit club and Credit karma to see if there is a victim of fraud CIFAS registered? (They don't show CIFAS if you did the fraud and I'm not saying you were involved!)
    • 8bits
    • By 8bits 2nd Oct 19, 2:02 PM
    • 30 Posts
    • 7 Thanks
    8bits
    As you sent of the SAR for CIFAS nearly a month ago, you should have received it by now.

    What does it say on the SAR?
    Originally posted by pcman1985

    I couldn't do it online so I filled the form but have not sent it yet. CIFAS will send the results by post, which I don't want for obvious reasons. Also CIFAS says:
    If you are looking to check whether you have been registered with us as a victim of fraud, you should check your credit report rather than make a Data Subject Access Request. Get in touch with any of the main credit reference agencies; your report will show Cifas 'victim markers' as well as lots of other useful information that will help you to spot if a fraudster is attempting to use your identity.
    I still haven't got time to go physically to the banks I've tried to open an account with but will do in the future and will keep this thread update.

    If a cheque book is lost, the banks put a stop on all the cheques in that cheque book and so they would not be able to be cashed.

    What does your your SAR say?

    How long have your been in the UK? Do you have any bank account still? Do you have a credit card? A mobile phone on SIM only or contract (not pay as you go)? Any utility bills in your name? Are you on the electoral roll? If so, have you tried to check your credit history reports with Clearscore, MSE credit club and Credit karma to see if there is a victim of fraud CIFAS registered? (They don't show CIFAS if you did the fraud and I'm not saying you were involved!)
    Originally posted by MovingForwards

    Yes, of course I have cancelled the "lost" cheque book.

    5+ years, yes I have bank accounts, phone, bills in my name etc. Never had a credit card and not planning to have one. Please see posts above, the CIFAS warnings appeared in my credit report, that's how I know someone tried to open bank accounts using my details.
    • MovingForwards
    • By MovingForwards 2nd Oct 19, 4:21 PM
    • 2,320 Posts
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    MovingForwards
    I still haven't got time to go physically to the banks I've tried to open an account with but will do in the future and will keep this thread update.

    5+ years, yes I have bank accounts, phone, bills in my name etc. Never had a credit card and not planning to have one. Please see posts above, the CIFAS warnings appeared in my credit report, that's how I know someone tried to open bank accounts using my details.
    Originally posted by 8bits
    If CIFAS is showing on your credit reports then it is down as you being a victim of fraud, that means you cannot automatically pass any credit checks and they have to be manually approved or rejected, part of that process will involve providing ID in person.

    So, the options are make time or wait until it falls off in a year or two as protective CIFAS are not on your file for 6 years.
    • Ben8282
    • By Ben8282 2nd Oct 19, 4:57 PM
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    Ben8282
    Something else not adding up here.
    A thief stole a cheque book and immediately wrote a cheque for 10,000.
    How was this cheque presented?
    Did he walk into a branch with the drivers licnce as ID and attempt to cash it?
    Did he pay it into his own/some unfortunate mule's bank account?
    Did he attempt to make a purchase with it in the hope that they would be foolish enough to hand over the goods prior to the cheque being cleared?
    However, the important poiunt here is the VALUE of the cheque.
    If somebody stole my chequebook and wrote a cheque for 10,000 it would bounce.
    I assume this would be the case in the majority of cases.
    Why then did the thief realise that the cheque would not bounce and how did he know the OP had sufficient funds in his account to cover ir?
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