John lewis refusing refund under distance sel regs

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  • bobwilson
    bobwilson Posts: 595 Forumite
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    boo_star wrote: »
    The law says nothing about you calling up to arrange engineer visits.

    http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2015/15/section/20/enacted is the relevant section of the law.

    I think you know I wasn't talking about specific references to engineer visits- no law can detail every possible scenario but they do tend to make generalisations. Is there no consumer leaflet like there used to be on distance selling regs about it? e.g.
    http://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/20140402222252/http://www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/business_leaflets/general/oft913.pdf

    (yes yes I know this isn't relevant, it's an example of a leaflet that's easy to read & comprehend for non legal experts)
  • boo_star
    boo_star Posts: 3,202 Forumite
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    bobwilson wrote: »
    I think you know I wasn't talking about specific references to engineer visits- no law can detail every possible scenario but they do tend to make generalisations. Is there no consumer leaflet like there used to be on distance selling regs about it? e.g.
    http://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/20140402222252/http://www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/business_leaflets/general/oft913.pdf

    (yes yes I know this isn't relevant, it's an example of a leaflet that's easy to read & comprehend for non legal experts)

    There is no Government-issued leaflet as far as I'm aware. The usual consumer rights sites of course have their own guides.
  • neilmcl
    neilmcl Posts: 19,460 Forumite
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    Jut how much water is leaking and does it leak at the start when filling up or during the wash cycle?

    Could it be that you're overfilling the machine and/or using too much detergent?

    These are the sorts of things that an engineer will check to make sure that an actual fault exists rather than something you're doing incorrectly.
  • bobwilson
    bobwilson Posts: 595 Forumite
    edited 10 April 2018 at 11:53AM
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    neilmcl wrote: »
    Jut how much water is leaking and does it leak at the start when filling up or during the wash cycle?

    Could it be that you're overfilling the machine and/or using too much detergent?

    These are the sorts of things that an engineer will check to make sure that an actual fault exists rather than something you're doing incorrectly.

    EDIT: I'm sorry if my reply sounded patronising- it's just because I found the question patronising, but I appreciate you were trying to help. I came on the rights section of the forum to find out my rights, not debate the fault of the machine. I wouldn't come on MSE forums if it was a case of too much detergent, and I don't think anyone would - they'd just decrease detergent. Perhaps I give people too much credit. I thought the fact I owned several Bosch machines with the same interface before this and never had a problem, answered that. Anyway, I use 1 liquid capsule in the drum so that's not the issue. The leak also happens with no detergent at all, so it isn't a problem with that. The drawer just leaks when it fills up, after an hour or so. I really wanted to just know my rights in this case.

    (Original reply:
    LOL it's nothing I'm doing incorrectly honey, you turn the machine on, it leaks while filling up. It has nothing to do with detergent & leaks when you don't use detergent. You obviously didn't read my post as I mentioned I had this machine before. This is a washing machine, not an amstrad computer from 1970s with a DOS-based operating system. Please don't patronise me.)

    Re: the above reply, I'm sorry again if it sounded off, I was also wound up by JL customer support at the time who were incredibly rude to me (who incidentally I'll never receive an apology from as you never speak to the same person twice), and the pressure was on as it was appearing to turn into a huge battle. I'm not the fastest to respond to rudeness in person, I'm usually so surprised by it I don't know what to say. It can ruin your whole day. I appreciate the irony of what I'm saying. There comes a time when you deal with so much unnecessary rudeness from people you just snap. Despite this reply which was a little impatient (perhaps understandably so given my situation), I think the number of incredibly nasty & personal replies below this one are a testament to that.

    I've since read there's a problem with JL support in the past few years, after reading reviews online, they've changed their management & processes, and aren't what they used to be. I've since found youtube videos of JL staff being rude & even hanging up on customers (similar to how they've been treating me), which is something I'm not used to in my generation particularly from JL.
  • wealdroam
    wealdroam Posts: 19,181 Forumite
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    Had a lengthy reply written, but decided not to post.

    Good luck Bob. You may not get any more support.
  • marliepanda
    marliepanda Posts: 7,186 Forumite
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    I predict tomorrow John Lewis will have replaced the washing machine, refunded Mr Wilson in full and given him a lifetime 50% discount off all future purchases for the inconvenience. Oh and of course a personal apology from the JL CEO... cant wait for Bob to tell us!
  • photome
    photome Posts: 16,362 Forumite
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    bobwilson wrote: »
    LOL it's nothing I'm doing incorrectly honey, you turn the machine on, it leaks while filling up. It has nothing to do with detergent & leaks when you don't use detergent. You obviously didn't read my post as I mentioned I had this machine before. This is a washing machine, not an amstrad computer from 1970s with a DOS-based operating system. Please don't patronise me.

    Hardly the way to go about getting help but I will try anyway

    Is the dispenser tray fitted in correctly, maybe a small piece of packaging has got stuck in it somewhere
  • John-K_3
    John-K_3 Posts: 681 Forumite
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    bobwilson wrote: »
    LOL it's nothing I'm doing incorrectly honey, you turn the machine on, it leaks while filling up. It has nothing to do with detergent & leaks when you don't use detergent. You obviously didn't read my post as I mentioned I had this machine before. This is a washing machine, not an amstrad computer from 1970s with a DOS-based operating system. Please don't patronise me.
    Bob, if this is the sort of attitude you display to people trying to help then it is not surprising that you exasperate even the best of staff on the phone.

    You are wrong about the law, you have had this pointed out, politely, and as a response you have decided to be rude to people.

    This attitude will not serve you well in life, I fear.
  • whitegoods_engineer
    whitegoods_engineer Posts: 636 Forumite
    edited 15 March 2018 at 3:46PM
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    Just because water is coming down from the soap drawer DOESN'T mean the machine is faulty.

    I have seen this when customers incorrectly use a soft detergent pod by putting it in the drawer. This then slips down into the channel feeding water into the drum and temporarily blocks it before it has had an opportunity to dissolve. The water cannot go down into the drum so rises up into the dispenser section where it pours out until the pod finally dissolves. Of course, when tested the pod will have gone. Unless the engineer has seen the pod being incorrectly used, no fault will be found on the day until the next time the customer puts the pod in the drawer instead of the drum!

    I've also seen massive over-pressure of the water inlet causing this.

    Have you checked your manual? The allowed water pressure is usually a maximum of 10 bar.

    You simply cannot just assume a fault. An expert needs to check the installation to determine whether or not a fault exists.

    Bosch machines are thoroughly tested with water prior to leaving the factory so a fault is less likely than an installation issue.

    There may be a fault but why should a retailer simply accept that there is before somebody who knows what they are talking about looks at it first.

    You need to allow JL to send out an engineer. If no fault is found, you could technically be liable to reimburse them for the cost of a visit!

    I have been to hundreds of visits for manufacturers where the customer has stated adamantly that the new appliance is faulty as soon as I arrive. In the vast majority of cases, the appliance turns out to be functioning correctly. Bad installation, customers not reading the manual and other reasons far outweigh actual faulty-on-arrival appliances.
  • Manxman_in_exile
    Manxman_in_exile Posts: 8,380 Forumite
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    We bought a Bosch from JL three years ago. It arrived after 8pm and wasn't levelled properly when installed.


    When we realised, we called JL and someone came out the next day to do the job properly. No problem.


    I understand what JL are doing here, but I wouldn't want to have to wait 8 days for a Bosch engineer to come out to confirm a fault. I would hope JL could send someone out to determine if it's leaking or not.


    But I appreciate that may not be the legal position.


    PS it's got dent in the casing too, but doesn't affect its operation.
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