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  • FIRST POST
    Former MSE Lawrence
    'Have you paid for pornography?' poll discussion
    • #1
    • 10th Aug 10, 10:33 AM
    'Have you paid for pornography?' poll discussion 10th Aug 10 at 10:33 AM
    Have you paid for pornography?

    The legal porn industry is said to be one of the biggest industries worth billions, yet it’s rarely ever discussed as a consumer purchase. So whether it’s on the internet, TV, phone, films, magazines or elsewhere...

    Which of these is closest to your situation (select your gender and answer) over the last year?

    A. I’m a man – I never use pornography - 8% (1518 votes)
    B. I’m a man – I only ever use free pornography - 41% (7718 votes)
    C. I’m a man – I use pornography and have paid for it - 11% (2016 votes)
    D. I’m a man – I use pornography and often pay for it - 1% (182 votes)
    E. I’m a woman – I never use pornography - 25% (4799 votes)
    F. I’m a woman – I only ever use free pornography - 11% (2100 votes)
    G. I’m a woman – I use pornography and have paid for it - 2% (447 votes)
    H. I’m a woman – I use pornography and often pay for it - 1% (111 votes)

    Total Votes: 18891

    This vote has now closed, but you can still click 'post reply' to discuss below. Thanks

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    Last edited by Former MSE Lawrence; 17-08-2010 at 11:51 AM.
Page 2
    • AfroKinky1
    • By AfroKinky1 11th Aug 10, 2:22 PM
    • 44 Posts
    • 20 Thanks
    AfroKinky1
    I never found the kind of porn I was looking for.
    My ex was really into porn. I could understand watching it but never understood reading fictional stories. Until I read one. Well written stories are far better in my opinion.

    As far as videos go, I was never able to find the kind of free porn I was looking for. I live in hope!
  • greenie1
    Am very sorry to see MSE stooping to having this discussion. There is a whole moral argument to be had before a commercial one is even up for discussion. Just because something is available and even because lots of people are 'doing it' doesn't make it right.
    Please Martin don't jump on the bandwagon. Some things are not discussed for a reason. It offends many and exploits more.
  • Scarlet Fever
    Vegetarian???
    If we are not supposed to eat animals, why are they made out of Meat??

    If you look after the pennies, the pounds will look after themselves.

    Originally posted by Oldbiggles

    lol - i just read your signature as "look after the penis" !
    (giggle at the comment!)
    Willow: I knew it, I knew it, well not in the sense of having the slightest idea, but I knew there was something I didn't know!
  • Scarlet Fever
    Am very sorry to see MSE stooping to having this discussion. There is a whole moral argument to be had before a commercial one is even up for discussion. Just because something is available and even because lots of people are 'doing it' doesn't make it right.
    Please Martin don't jump on the bandwagon. Some things are not discussed for a reason. It offends many and exploits more.
    Originally posted by greenie1

    Are we not allowed to discuss as adults a pastime that many people enjoy - and talk about the bad bits so we can get rid of them?

    With regards to 'stooping' to having the discussion, i think that is a very shallow and shortsighted view, by not talking about it does not mean it will go away
    Willow: I knew it, I knew it, well not in the sense of having the slightest idea, but I knew there was something I didn't know!
    • grahamm
    • By grahamm 11th Aug 10, 3:28 PM
    • 56 Posts
    • 150 Thanks
    grahamm
    I don't use pornography for the same reason I'm vegetarian - I do my best not to cause harm to others.
    Originally posted by Maat
    So why not just avoid buying battery farmed eggs or crated veal or non-organically farmed meat, all of which "cause harm"?

    This link gives a voice to men, women and children who have been harmed by it. Maybe the 90% of men in particular who said they watch it should find out more about the people who suffer within it and because of it.
    Maybe those who produce sites like that should stop cherry-picking their data which agrees with their point of view and ignoring anything that doesn't.

    For example quoting what rapists say? That's really going to give you an unbiased sample, isn't it! Is a rapist going to stand up and say "I like raping women, what's wrong with that?" or are they going to try to exculpate themselves by saying "it wasn't my fault, the porn made me do it"...?

    And it cites the work of Donnerstein who thought he'd found a link between showing men pornography and violent attitudes to women. What it doesn't mention is that he subsequently *withdrew* his conclusions because he found that the same results could be achieved by, instead of showing pornography, he got his subjects to ride an exercise bike for ten minutes. Should we ban exercise bikes as well?

    Most significantly, however, it does *not* cite the work of Professor Milton Diamond PhD of the University of Hawai'i who looked at the levels of sexual crimes in the USA and Japan (including violent material) and concluded "It is certainly clear from the data reviewed, and the new data and analysis presented, that a massive increase in available pornography in Japan, the United States and elsewhere has been correlated with a dramatic decrease in sexual crimes" [his emphasis]

    Of course those who oppose pornography won't cite anything that disagrees with their point of view, because they *know* it "causes harm" and won't consider that there may be *other* causes of that harm.
    if i had known then what i know now
    • grahamm
    • By grahamm 11th Aug 10, 3:43 PM
    • 56 Posts
    • 150 Thanks
    grahamm
    So far, none of the posters have mentioned the issue of 'Porn Addiction'. Although I certainly accept that not everyone who uses porn is an addict,
    Originally posted by lucyloo1
    No, not everyone who uses porn is an addict. More importantly the vast majority of people (male and female) who use porn will *never* become addicts, let alone (to quote from your site) "lose all respect for women and start to see them as just sex objects nor "start viewing material that is illegal - child porn, violent porn, bestiality etc."

    The "gateway theory" argument that "Over time, the person needs to find more and more "exciting" material to achieve orgasm" is equally nonsensical and has as little credibility as the claim that smoking a bit of wacky baccy today will mean you're mainlining heroin tomorrow.

    The claim that "It is very common for an addict to not realise that they are one and deny it" equally lacks credibility because if someone says "I'm not an addict", clearly they're just in denial, so they *are* an addict...!

    Yes, *some* people (a very few) may be affected in this way, but trying to parlay that into a general case just doesn't follow.
    if i had known then what i know now
    • grahamm
    • By grahamm 11th Aug 10, 3:47 PM
    • 56 Posts
    • 150 Thanks
    grahamm
    There is a whole moral argument to be had before a commercial one is even up for discussion.
    Originally posted by greenie1
    Unfortunately that "moral argument" seems to mostly be "I don't like this, so *you* shouldn't do it".

    If all participants are consenting adults then it is the business of *nobody* except them what they do.

    Some things are not discussed for a reason. It offends many
    Yes, just like in the last century people did not talk about homosexuality...
    if i had known then what i know now
    • Oldbiggles
    • By Oldbiggles 11th Aug 10, 4:48 PM
    • 473 Posts
    • 274 Thanks
    Oldbiggles
    With so many TV programmes and films showing an ever increasing amount of the so called sexual act. Why bother to pay to watch it on a pay site?

    Trying to learn something new every day.

    • Squirrelking
    • By Squirrelking 11th Aug 10, 5:20 PM
    • 5 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    Squirrelking
    With so many TV programmes and films showing an ever increasing amount of the so called sexual act. Why bother to pay to watch it on a pay site?

    Originally posted by Oldbiggles
    I'd say that argument would apply to easily downloadable illegal (in a copyright sense) content rather than the poor material shown on TV.

    I'm all for changing the rules, at present you can buy hardcore magazines wherever, videos only from licensed shops and anything on internet. The money made from changing broadcasting rules would be significant, theres no issue of children seeing inappropriate material in this age of encryption (24 hour broadcasting rather than the present post-watershed nonsense) and free availability.

    At the end of the day it all comes down to choice, you can either choose to use it or not at all. What consenting adults do behind closed doors are of no consequence or business to anyone else. Children need to be better educated as well with regards to sex and the whole thing about pornography. Driving an issue underground only causes misinformation and people unable to find out the facts for themselves, hence teens thinking ridiculous porn acting, bodies and orgies are the norm.

    As for me, free all the way, I won't be paying for it until either the quality and availability improves or I pay a tax on the air I breathe...
  • lucylucky
    I am intrigued as to the original question.

    I have seen porn many times., and can recommend the Sex Museum in Amsterdam for an interesting view of some of the history, but I can only recall one occasion when I have "used" porn.

    Reminds me of an old bad joke - Use pornography? I don't even have a pornograph!
    • cavie78
    • By cavie78 11th Aug 10, 5:38 PM
    • 17 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    cavie78
    I find 99% of porn to be the very opposite of erotic. I don't view much to be honest but have paid on ocassion precisely to avoid the, in my opinion, horrible stuff that clogs up the net. There are a few sites that make a big deal about ethics such as Suicide Girls and Abby Winters - give me them over weird sexual athletics anytime!
    • Paulie'sGirl
    • By Paulie'sGirl 11th Aug 10, 5:38 PM
    • 917 Posts
    • 2,735 Thanks
    Paulie'sGirl
    Hmmm, its an interesting (and clearly divisive) issue.

    OH and I have watched it together, I'm not so sure I'd be comfortable with him using it alone though. We've been to burlesque shows together too.

    I don't have any moral objections to its use openly, I think repression of such things, driving them underground, is what causes exploitation and deterioration of relationships.

    Paying for it? We've paid for it because we prefered a less tacky style.

    Live and let live
    • Stephenbw
    • By Stephenbw 11th Aug 10, 6:31 PM
    • 114 Posts
    • 95 Thanks
    Stephenbw
    I don't use pornography for the same reason I'm vegetarian - I do my best not to cause harm to others. This link gives a voice to men, women and children who have been harmed by it. Maybe the 90% of men in particular who said they watch it should find out more about the people who suffer within it and because of it.

    https://againstpornography.org/effectsandharms.html
    Originally posted by Maat
    I have been a vegetarian for 26 years; I have used pornography for even longer. As the porn I am interested in involves only men I was curious to see how this harmed women or children so I checked out your link.

    This was what I found

    Q: How about gay and lesbian pornography? Are feminists against those genres too?
    A: Feminists are against all forms of pornography because, sadly, the vast majority of commercial gay male pornography mimics the domination/subordination dynamic of straight porn.


    The author has no valid answer to the question so instead makes the leap that she is against "all forms of pornography" because "the vast majority of commercial gay male pornography mimics the domination/subordination dynamic of straight porn.

    Not only is her assertion a blatant lie which shows that she knows nothing about gay pornography, it is a spurious argument, akin to saying "I am against all forms of food because production of the vast majority of it harms the environment"

    Unfortunately this, for me, undermines any valid points she may have.
  • dawsar
    Lets stop making it taboo, tax it and legalise it!!! Look at how clean it is in Amsterdam. As long as everyone involved is over the age of 18 and consenting where is the problem. Porn is exciting, but I have to say, I wouldn't pay for it.....lol
  • lucyloo1
    No, not everyone who uses porn is an addict. More importantly the vast majority of people (male and female) who use porn will *never* become addicts, let alone (to quote from your site) "lose all respect for women and start to see them as just sex objects nor "start viewing material that is illegal - child porn, violent porn, bestiality etc."

    The "gateway theory" argument that "Over time, the person needs to find more and more "exciting" material to achieve orgasm" is equally nonsensical and has as little credibility as the claim that smoking a bit of wacky baccy today will mean you're mainlining heroin tomorrow.

    The claim that "It is very common for an addict to not realise that they are one and deny it" equally lacks credibility because if someone says "I'm not an addict", clearly they're just in denial, so they *are* an addict...!

    Yes, *some* people (a very few) may be affected in this way, but trying to parlay that into a general case just doesn't follow.
    Originally posted by grahamm

    1) I wouldn't claim to know how many people are casual porn users and how many are addicts. If you do, I would be most interested to know where you got your figures from. I certainly don't know but, I do think it is a "hidden problem" because it is one that is one that is very difficult to admit to, either for the addict themselves or their partner, if they have one.

    2) My site is there for people to go to who are addicted to porn or affected by that addiction. Addicts are as likely to deny their problem (and possibly equally convincingly) as those who genuinely don't have a problem. The way you can tell the 2 apart is from their behaviour - compulsive vs 'take it or leave it'.

    3) I do think that the addiction is a "slippery slope" and that some addicts will continue just getting worse and worse. Perhaps for some, they can achieve some sort of control over it so, that they don't slide into viewing more and more extreme material. That may just mean they are less addicted than the ones that do.

    4) As for compulsive porn viewing affecting the addict's attitude towards, women. I have experienced this myself and so I know it happens. That is all I can say on this point.

    Thanks for your response.
    • grahamm
    • By grahamm 12th Aug 10, 1:03 AM
    • 56 Posts
    • 150 Thanks
    grahamm
    1) I wouldn't claim to know how many people are casual porn users and how many are addicts. If you do, I would be most interested to know where you got your figures from. I certainly don't know but, I do think it is a "hidden problem" because it is one that is one that is very difficult to admit to, either for the addict themselves or their partner, if they have one.
    Originally posted by lucyloo1
    Sorry, but this is the Burden of Proof fallacy. You assert that this is a "hidden problem", but you admit that you have no knowledge or information of the scope of the problem, yet you then want *me* to back up my disagreement with figures.

    You then repeat the same "no win scenario" whereby someone *cannot* deny being a "pornography addict" because that denial simply means that they won't admit that they are and try to back that up with an assertion that anyone who "has control over it" is just "less addicted" than those who are addicts.

    That makes as much sense as saying that anyone who drinks alcohol but has control of it is not as much of an alcoholic as someone who can't stop drinking.

    Finally, yes, I'm sure that *some* people are affected by porn and, yes, I'm sure that it does affect their attitude towards women, but that is not an argument for censorship any more than saying that drink driving is an argument for Prohibition of Alcohol.
    Last edited by grahamm; 12-08-2010 at 1:05 AM.
    if i had known then what i know now
    • JDPower
    • By JDPower 12th Aug 10, 2:53 AM
    • 1,589 Posts
    • 1,493 Thanks
    JDPower
    Thanks Grahamm, I was going to post a number of points in reply to some of what's been posted here but you've made ALL my points for me

    As for compulsive porn viewing affecting the addict's attitude towards, women. I have experienced this myself and so I know it happens.
    Originally posted by lucyloo1
    You've experienced it so it's true? Maybe the person in question was at fault, who says the porn was anything to do with his attitude towards women. The odds are they had a bad attitude to women all along and their efforts to hide it lessened over time.

    As for you argument porn is bad because someone can become addicted is meaningless. People can get addicted to all sorts, some are addicted to food, does that make food a bad thing? Some are addicted to shopping, should we close all shops? Would we cure all OCD sufferers by banning cleaning products etc.

    I don't doubt you've had a bad experience in this area and I am not belittling the problem in the slightest, but you can't colour the entire human races use of something based on your (and a comparatively small percentage of others) experience.
    Last edited by JDPower; 12-08-2010 at 3:01 AM.
  • bendix
    MSE's pornography survey
    Seriously guys, WTF are you thinking?

    How on earth is this related to money saving? It smacks of prurient sensationalism, overlaid with a hint of voyeurism.
    • Percy1983
    • By Percy1983 12th Aug 10, 9:47 AM
    • 4,995 Posts
    • 7,824 Thanks
    Percy1983
    I think I have missed this one.
    • robpw2
    • By robpw2 12th Aug 10, 9:49 AM
    • 12,646 Posts
    • 26,389 Thanks
    robpw2
    what does this have to do with a debate on house prices


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