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  • FIRST POST
    • Nearlydebtfree
    • By Nearlydebtfree 9th Oct 19, 6:34 PM
    • 16Posts
    • 15Thanks
    Nearlydebtfree
    High Income Child Benefit Charge
    • #1
    • 9th Oct 19, 6:34 PM
    High Income Child Benefit Charge 9th Oct 19 at 6:34 PM
    Hi

    I have just come back from work to a letter from HMRC re the HICBC and I have now worked out that I owe them money. Totally put my hands up, I didn't know about the charge, and I don't remember hearing about it, but I am not going to argue this with them as it is entirely my own fault - ignorance is no defence. Payment was changed to my account on my divorce and I just simply had a letter confirming what I would receive. I have obviously missed the news about it!

    Anyway - I have today registered for self-assessment online and I assume I wait for a code from them or something and then fill in a tax return for the last 3 years which is when I went over the limit. I have also stated that I do not want to receive it anymore and filled a form in for that tonight.

    My question is - do I have to repay the sum immediately? They have only asked me to fill in details up to 2017-18 so far and not 2018-19. I can pay it but I would need a little time and I just wondered on their time frame or if it just a case of cough up now? Am I also likely to be hit with a penalty as I have looked at my tax returns and I earnt £1k over the limit in 2015-2016 but that was the first time I went over from 2013.I was hoping by responding to them straightaway to deal with it they may be kinder but am I just being ridiculous!

    I am not complaining, I am taking the full responsibility and just want to sort it without too much trauma.

    Other than that a joyous letter to come home too
Page 1
    • MrsC....tobe
    • By MrsC....tobe 9th Oct 19, 8:00 PM
    • 1,069 Posts
    • 2,771 Thanks
    MrsC....tobe
    • #2
    • 9th Oct 19, 8:00 PM
    • #2
    • 9th Oct 19, 8:00 PM
    My husband has one of these letters aswell. They want him to go back to 2012/13. Nightmare. They reckon the information is all on P60 and P11D etc but on looking at his P60s none one of them shows his pension contributions so he’s going to have to go back through every single payslip to try and find the information. It doesn’t help that all his payslips are online from both of his employments so he’s currently away back to work to get his laptop so we can start trawling information!
    no longer ...tobe! Married 20/06/13
    gorgeous baby boy born 22/10/14
    • Nearlydebtfree
    • By Nearlydebtfree 9th Oct 19, 8:04 PM
    • 16 Posts
    • 15 Thanks
    Nearlydebtfree
    • #3
    • 9th Oct 19, 8:04 PM
    • #3
    • 9th Oct 19, 8:04 PM
    It's a fun letter to come home to isn't it! What have they said about time to pay?

    I wish I had known as I just would have told them I didn't want it but hey ho!

    I don't think I have payslips from 2013!
    • xylophone
    • By xylophone 9th Oct 19, 8:27 PM
    • 31,625 Posts
    • 19,610 Thanks
    xylophone
    • #4
    • 9th Oct 19, 8:27 PM
    • #4
    • 9th Oct 19, 8:27 PM
    Are you sure that you owe HMRC?

    Have you calculated your adjusted net income for the years in question, taking into account pension contributions etc?

    https://www.pruadviser.co.uk/knowledge-literature/knowledge-library/reduce-high-income-child-benefit-charge/

    https://www.gov.uk/child-benefit-tax-charge
    • MrsC....tobe
    • By MrsC....tobe 9th Oct 19, 9:12 PM
    • 1,069 Posts
    • 2,771 Thanks
    MrsC....tobe
    • #5
    • 9th Oct 19, 9:12 PM
    • #5
    • 9th Oct 19, 9:12 PM
    It's a fun letter to come home to isn't it! What have they said about time to pay?

    I wish I had known as I just would have told them I didn't want it but hey ho!

    I don't think I have payslips from 2013!
    Originally posted by Nearlydebtfree
    They basically want him to tell them now how much he owes for 17/18! Electronic payslips donít go back far enough for one employment, theyíre only available for 12 months and after that itís P60s which donít detail pensions! itís a nightmare!

    They want him to go back to 2012/2013 but he doesnít have that information, Iím sure in Scotland you only need to retain for 5 years, Iíd need to double check that.
    no longer ...tobe! Married 20/06/13
    gorgeous baby boy born 22/10/14
    • binkydoormat
    • By binkydoormat 18th Oct 19, 3:07 PM
    • 6 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    binkydoormat
    • #6
    • 18th Oct 19, 3:07 PM
    Fearing a large bill
    • #6
    • 18th Oct 19, 3:07 PM
    I've just become aware of this charge. My income went over 50k for the first time (in fact it went over 60k) back in 2015, after the charge was implemented, and I had no idea about the need to do a self assessment return. I have always been PAYE and assumed HMRC systems talked to each other (!) so they would know if I shouldn't be getting CB any more. In fact, it's my wife that receives the CB. I'd forgotten we even still received it.
    I think this means I now need to contact HMRC voluntarily and then wait for the massive bill for all the CB we've received for 2 children since summer 2015 - about £8k's worth!
    Or am I missing something? (Please tell me I am.)
    • calcotti
    • By calcotti 18th Oct 19, 3:24 PM
    • 3,846 Posts
    • 2,605 Thanks
    calcotti
    • #7
    • 18th Oct 19, 3:24 PM
    • #7
    • 18th Oct 19, 3:24 PM
    ..it's my wife that receives the CB. I'd forgotten we even still received it.
    Originally posted by binkydoormat
    Which I think has caught a lot of people out.

    Or am I missing something? (Please tell me I am.
    Originally posted by binkydoormat
    I don't think you are missing anything.
    • binkydoormat
    • By binkydoormat 18th Oct 19, 3:24 PM
    • 6 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    binkydoormat
    • #8
    • 18th Oct 19, 3:24 PM
    • #8
    • 18th Oct 19, 3:24 PM
    PS: this House of Commons briefing paper, published yesterday (as a new member of the forum I can't post the link to it), says “HMRC checks each year and where all the relevant information is held, writes to customers explaining what they need to do to pay HICBC and avoid penalties.”
    But they've certainly never written to me about it.
    • calcotti
    • By calcotti 18th Oct 19, 3:27 PM
    • 3,846 Posts
    • 2,605 Thanks
    calcotti
    • #9
    • 18th Oct 19, 3:27 PM
    • #9
    • 18th Oct 19, 3:27 PM
    PS: this House of Commons briefing paper, published yesterday (as a new member of the forum I can't post the link to it), says ďHMRC checks each year and where all the relevant information is held, writes to customers explaining what they need to do to pay HICBC and avoid penalties.Ē
    But they've certainly never written to me about it.
    Originally posted by binkydoormat
    This is the link for those who would like to read it.
    https://researchbriefings.parliament.uk/ResearchBriefing/Summary/CBP-8631

    in addition to the paragraph you quoted I note "HMRC is already writing to customers who might be liable to High Income Child Benefit Charge in 2016 to 2017 and 2017 to 2018, to help them meet their tax obligations in time to avoid paying a penalty." (page 9)

    Do remember that the threshold is not simply your gross pay. It is your adjusted net income which is your total taxable income before any personal allowances but less things like pension contributions and Gift Aid. Does however include the value of benefits in kind. https://www.gov.uk/guidance/adjusted-net-income
    Last edited by calcotti; 18-10-2019 at 5:15 PM.
    • Nearlydebtfree
    • By Nearlydebtfree 21st Oct 19, 12:45 PM
    • 16 Posts
    • 15 Thanks
    Nearlydebtfree
    Hi - I think if you tell HMRC before they tell you they are less likely to try and fine you for not notifying them! I have had to complete a questionnaire as to why I didn't tell them, so no idea if I will be fined or not!

    I genuinely did not know but not sure this will work anyway - shall wait and see! If you do contact them you need to provide them with your information from 2013 onwards and work out your taxable income and how much benefit you received and work out how much you owe them.

    Good luck!
    • julia817
    • By julia817 22nd Oct 19, 1:39 PM
    • 17 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    julia817
    I also came home to this letter yesterday and I am in a complete tail spin. Its only asking for 2017-2018 tax year but I think I will be liable back for a few years. I knew nothing about this an don't feel it was widely know. What a complete farce for £85 per month.


    My question is how do they make you pay it back?
    Can you stop receiving it with immediate effect?
    How are your pension contributions taken into account.
    I got married in 2017 so I think my new husbands salary with take us over the £60k threshold, but he's taken into account on his daughters child benefit (who doesn't live with us). My son isn't his child?
    I sometimes work from home, which I think I can claim back, also paid additional into my pension which doesn't show on my P60 and also mileage which I think I can claim the difference between 45p per mile and what my company have paid me?


    Any other things I can add to my self assessment claim?




    Thanks


    Julia
    • Nearlydebtfree
    • By Nearlydebtfree 22nd Oct 19, 2:04 PM
    • 16 Posts
    • 15 Thanks
    Nearlydebtfree
    Hi - I emailed them (with all the disclaimed stuff about using emails) and sent them the tax information from 2013 - from what I have read they will ask for this and I was fortunate that I have my P60's to hand.

    They have responded and double checked what I have put and reduced the figure I thought I owed taking into account pension contributions I have made. I have had to fill in a form about why I didn't tell them and if I had reasonable cause etc - they emailed me back yesterday and confirmed I don't have to pay a fine for not telling them. I just said that I genuinely did not know.

    I am now waiting for a letter confirming what I owe and they said there will be a telephone number for the time to pay department.

    I have also filled in a form on their website stopping the benefit as well.

    To be fair when I have rung them they are really helpful and the man even apologised to me
    • binkydoormat
    • By binkydoormat 22nd Oct 19, 2:55 PM
    • 6 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    binkydoormat
    I spoke to HMRC today. The guy was relatively helpful (after I’d been passed between 4 different departments including a premium rate phone number) although he did spend quite a bit of time on the call reading to me from the gov.uk website.
    I am now registered for submitting tax returns retrospectively for 4 years.

    I made clear to him that neither I nor my wife have ever received any correspondence from HMRC about this charge, which he said is not normal. He suggested that if HMRC try to charge a late payment fine and/or interest then I should appeal it because I was unaware of the charge.

    @julia817 - yes I think all those things do count towards reducing the amount you my need liable to repay. A colleague recommended to me paying a few hundred quid to an accountant to fill in the tax returns if you’re not used to it (I’m not as have always been employed and PAYE).
    • spaceman2009
    • By spaceman2009 12th Nov 19, 10:52 AM
    • 10 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    spaceman2009
    Hi all,
    We also received this letter a few days ago and never knew of this charge

    It seems we owe a few years worth, especially as benefits from work are included too. Could anyone please tell me how it all needs paid back, for the current tax year and for the previous years?

    We have very little disposable income and i am hoping it can all be paid back gradually over a period of time otherwise we are stuffed!

    Thanks.
    • binkydoormat
    • By binkydoormat 12th Nov 19, 10:59 AM
    • 6 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    binkydoormat
    I’m not sure yet @spaceman2009 as haven’t received my own bill yet. However, I am told by an accountant friend that normally HMRC initially bills you for the full amount pretty quickly. But you can then appeal against the length of time. Part of HMRC’s remit is avoiding ppl getting into debt (ironic in this case), which means they don’t really want people taking out loans to repay tax owed. Therefore you can negotiate longer payment terms I believe. Especially since this is their fault for not telling people about this high income charge sooner.
    Last edited by binkydoormat; 12-11-2019 at 11:03 AM.
    • Nearlydebtfree
    • By Nearlydebtfree 12th Nov 19, 11:03 AM
    • 16 Posts
    • 15 Thanks
    Nearlydebtfree
    Hi - I have been on to them this morning about this as I've been told I need to pay by 30/11. They've told me that I have to complete the 18/19 self assessment on line before they will even discuss a payment plan with me.

    My accountant friend has said that they will ask a few questions about why you cannot afford it and then let you set a payment plan up and as long as you stick to it they are ok, but if you don't they come down on you quite heavily.

    I will update when I finally get somewhere - have just signed up for self assessment and asked for a code, slowly getting there!
    • spaceman2009
    • By spaceman2009 12th Nov 19, 1:00 PM
    • 10 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    spaceman2009
    Great thanks for your reply. I hope itís a longish payment plan, very nervous about how much it will come to. So annoyed that they only bothered to let us know now, we could have stopped it a lot sooner and saved the stress. They are a law until themselves and itís always our problem no theirs 😡
    • binkydoormat
    • By binkydoormat 12th Nov 19, 1:14 PM
    • 6 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    binkydoormat
    Bizarrely I have now just had a letter through the door today from HMRC - it seems to be a generic one. Summary is "have you heard of the high income CB charge?" and asks me to notify them if I think I may be liable to pay it. This is despite me having phoned HMRC 3 weeks ago to tell them I might be liable for it and them agreeing to set me up for self assessment - I've received nothing related to that at all. Their admin seems to be completely chaotic on this issue. What's more the letter is addressed to my mum, who's never lived at my address and only has one child who is nearly 40!
    #BuildingACaseForAppeal
    • spaceman2009
    • By spaceman2009 12th Nov 19, 1:18 PM
    • 10 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    spaceman2009
    Yes that sound about right! I think they have realised theyíve done a very poor job of informing people and are probably getting a lot of stick for it. It would have been nice to be informed a lot earlier by letter! Funny about the letter addressed to your mum, as you say very chaotic..
    • Dazed and confused
    • By Dazed and confused 12th Nov 19, 7:55 PM
    • 5,475 Posts
    • 2,916 Thanks
    Dazed and confused
    Nearlydebtfree

    If you file your 2018:19 Self Assessment return by 30 December 2019 and owe less than £3,000 for that tax year and are still employed in a good paying job then you shouldn't need to pay the amount due for 2018:19 now.

    You can have whatever is owed for 2018:19 included in your 2020:21 tax code, effectively a 14 month long interest free loan.
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