Northern Rail Fixed Penalty Notice: Help Please
Comments
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What knowledge of Northern's FPN do you have? That's not rhetorical. Do we know they aren't enforced using Byelaws? Have they been tested in court? What wording is used on them? The same, to all intents and purposes, as an out of court settlement, surely? The wont be benefitting finacially with the costs incurred etc.geordie_taxi wrote: »'fixed penalty notice' with no lawful legislation that is extortion. but please i wud luv to hear ur take on 'if you dont pay us this bribe (which has no legal directive) then we will prosecute' isnt extorting monies out of passengers
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What knowledge of Northern's FPN do you have? That's not rhetorical..
I don't have any knowledge of their legality so cud u please provide the legal legislation these FPN carry and please dont post byelaw legislation as im sure they dont mention anything about FPNsDo we know they aren't enforced using Byelaws.
because the correct way to enforce the byelaws is via a magistrates court any other way is extortion to increase profits and these FPN are just as bad as the cowboy carpark onesHave they been tested in court? What wording is used on them? The same, to all intents and purposes, as an out of court settlement, surely? The wont be benefitting finacially with the costs incurred etc.
please keep up. as I stated before it wud cost to much in fancy lawyers to contest and the train companies know this but u never know one day they mite pick on one of those fancy lawyersFares Advisor & Oyster Specialist - Newdeal/ukRail Fares Workshop Accredited0 -
I was asking because I too was unsure, hence why I said it was non-rhetorical...geordie_taxi wrote: »I don't have any knowledge of their legality so cud u please provide the legal legislation these FPN carry and please dont post byelaw legislation as im sure they dont mention anything about FPNs
because the correct way to enforce the byelaws is via a magistrates court any other way is extortion to increase profits and these FPN are just as bad as the cowboy carpark ones
please keep up. as I stated before it wud cost to much in fancy lawyers to contest and the train companies know this but u never know one day they mite pick on one of those fancy lawyers
Your penultimate point is semi-correct. For example, look at Byelaw 14. Also, there's nothing wrong with bypassing them if a settlement is more appropriate. Let's not forget, the generous TOCs have to act in the public interest, as per the CPS rules.0 -
Being so close to the City, whenever I go into town I catch the train, as the station is literally around the corner, the nearest bus stop is a 20 minute walk and the cost of a return ticket is far cheaper than the bus fare.
During the day the station is manned and I can safely buy a ticket, but in the evening it is unmanned and there is no ticket machine available, so I rely on the ticket guard on the train. Not always is there a train guard but I am one stop away before I reach Piccadilly Station.
If by this point I still have no train ticket, there are ticket vendors at the end of each platform, along with the guards vetting those with tickets. I have never to this day had a problem with how the system works, but I have always paid my return fare so I can at least get back home.
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geordie_taxi wrote: »more incorrect info again.t
You would know all about that wouldnt you.
Stigy, you are right they have to have buy a ticket for their journey where facilities allow it. They do not have to actively seek out the guard to do this though, they are allowed to pay at their destination."If you no longer go for a gap, you are no longer a racing driver" - Ayrton Senna0 -
The onus is on the traveller to seek out the Guard in such circumstances,......... the Guard makes it through to check tickets,.....If he doesn't, it's often easy enough to approach him. You'll be able to see where he is when you board the train too....I believe "as soon as practicable" is the terminology. This would, in a lot of Northern's territory, by the Guard on the Train......I agree that the Guard is there primarily for the safety etc, but on such a route "as soon as reasonably practicable" would be the Guard,......The onus is on the passenger to pay their fare, and if that means seeking the Guard, so be it.......
So 5 times (at least, and so far in this thread) you have posted this nonsense, albeit in your "authoritative" manner.
Apart from being irrelevant and OT to the OP's questions, your assertions over this business of seeking out the guard are just not true and can safely be ignored.
Are you an over zealous hector, or a thwarted one - or maybe just never got accepted into a position for which jobsworth's were required to apply, so simply post on forums to scaremonger like this?
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Edit: I now been sent this seen on the net at another forum from someone using the same name as you. Is this plastic policeman you?:I am an Accredited Person for a TOC and quite enjoy it. We get the usual jaunts
about being plastic policemen etc, but hey ho! It's on a par with a PCSO I guess, although with more power arguably.
http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=57500
Dunno if a brave PCSO would agree a hector has more "power", but it must be nice for you, telling innocent people how powerful you are and then wrongly telling them they should have "sought out the guard", when they had no need to!0 -
C_Mababejive wrote: »If there is no ticket booth at your departure point then what are you to do? Is the expectation that you will have purchased a ticket on line? If someone attempts to tender payment at the destination then clearly,there is no intent to travel without payment. Maybe northern rail need to ensure their stations are correctly manned or at least that there are ticket machines for prepayment.
Northern Rail is very used to operating with many stations unmanned, because they are primarily lightly used, rural stations. There are clear posters at my nearest part-time station telling you you must purchase a ticket before boarding if possible (i.e. station when manned) or purchase on train.
Most Northern trains are only two carriages long and the ticket inspector usually makes it down the train after every other station (at least on my route). Really no excuse for not finding the guard (who on northern trains is almost always walking up and down the train or standing by the doors at one end).Save £200 a month : [STRIKE]Oct[/STRIKE] Nov Dec Jan Feb Mar Apr0 -
Wow, you really have been digging, haven't you? 2011? I have noticed you posted a selected part of that posting. If you posted the whole thing, people would see, I'm just being my usual, helpful and knowledgeable self.Edit: I now been sent this seen on the net at another forum from someone using the same name as you. Is this plastic policeman you?:
http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=57500
Dunno if a brave PCSO would agree a hector has more "power", but it must be nice for you, telling innocent people how powerful you are and then wrongly telling them they should have "sought out the guard", when they had no need to!
You accuse me of posting OT comments, yet you start a whole new subject all of your own...0 -
It doesn't state that you can pay at your destination either. Keeping it ambiguous to an extent, allows for buying from the Guard, at an interchange station or at your destination. Clever wording that you rightly say would be wrong if being specific.Jeff_Bridges_hair wrote: »You would know all about that wouldnt you.
Stigy, you are right they have to have buy a ticket for their journey where facilities allow it. They do not have to actively seek out the guard to do this though, they are allowed to pay at their destination.
Was I wrong to specify the Guard being sought in particular? Probably, but in terms of a TOC prosecuting a passenger, as I said earlier, they could use CCTV evidence etc to prove that the passenger didn't make enough of an effort to buy their ticket. I respect what you're saying and stand corrected.0 -
Some stations without ticket offices have 'permit to travel' machines, down south they strict about you using them, not so much up here although I notice clamping down. The onus is on the customer to purchase a ticket before travel where possible, not making an effort on the train either does not look good.Declutterbug-in-progress.⭐️⭐️⭐️ ⭐️⭐️0
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