Cladding of a combustible nature

Principeingles · 16 November 2019 at 8:01PM

Jessieh wrote: »

The offer was agreed in amid July and the bank requested the cladding report in late August. Since then we have been chasing all the time.

I’m calling my sales agent in a bit and will try to get someone at a director level to speak to YY. Adam is quite senior and I feel that he doesn’t care much about us chasing. Hopefully someone at a similar level will get more information out from him. If you could do the same, that’d be helpful.

I have contacted Y&Y, as have the estate agents. They sent us a copy of the latest statement from the surveyors who have done the test. The interesting bit is they said:

"..... there is still one main outstanding issue relating to the ability of third parties to rely on the report. Those third parties would include mortgage lenders and flat owners, and if they can rely on the report then that means that they can sue IFC/fire engineers in general directly if they incur a loss as a result of an error we made. Fire engineers cannot accept that.
........ In due course we expect the mortgage lenders will back down..."

So it looks like we just have to wait. I am not able to wait much longer though.

Have you had any more positive news with your sale?

haras_nosirrah · 16 November 2019 at 9:35PM

I fear today's news about the non acm cladding fire in Bolton may bring more uncertainty. Thankfully the students were ok

shau · 22 November 2019 at 5:14PM

haras_nosirrah wrote: »

The reality of the situation from the other side of the desk is that no lenders are lending on properties above 6 stories which have any kind of cladding unless MHCLG reports are done and can be provided.

Before any buyer wastes their money on a survey ask the vendor or estate agent if this report has already been done. If the answer is no it is not mortgagable at the moment and won't be until the situation changes and the lenders are less strict or these reports are provided.

Prior to july people were getting them through. Since July it won't happen. This has become very clear recently.

If people say to the housing associations and management companies that they aren't going to buy without the report they may pull their fingers out and actually get them sorted. It is pointless spending money on a survey until this is done.

If the block is under 6 stories or 18m (the lower of the two) you have better odds. I got a mortgage offer out last week for someone without needing the reports but on these cases I would go with a lender with a free valuation even if the rate is slightly higher as it will be down to surveyors discretion.

Which lender was that? My block is 5 stories and under 18 and BM Solutions valuer e.surv still want MHCLG statement and would not accept my management surveyors report that we comply with regulations.

haras_nosirrah · 23 November 2019 at 5:48AM

We have been choosing lenders with free surveys. I can't put lenders on here as it is luck of the draw with the surveyor and I don't want to put something that could be construed as 'advice and then that lender comes back with the same issue.

What I do now is phone lenders and find out the likely surveying company and then speak to them and see if they have leant on any others recently. It doesn't always work as they won't always tell us but brokers have access to bdm's at banks who can check systems for other applications.

ryski84 · 25 November 2019 at 7:03PM

Hi all

The BBC have reported on this issue. I can't share the link but google 'bbc' and 'cladding'.

My building has no cladding but is over 18m in height, hence the request for the written statement. In the above article, the building has a penthouse floor with cladding. The rest is brick. Can you imagine how many buildings there are with no cladding but over 18m in height in London alone?

I think if our building had any cladding on, I would have withdrawn from our sale by now. The government neither industry appears to have any idea right now. I would say this is months away from being resolved.

The problem is the MHCLG guidelines are not law. The government have caused this ambiguity and mortgage lenders are treating the guidelines as if they are law.

terzinho86 · 25 November 2019 at 7:36PM

Ryski84 are you sure you know the combustibility class of your insulation? (behind the bricks). That could be combustible too. The system needs to be tested according to MHCLG Advice Note 14.

MikeHu · 26 November 2019 at 8:15PM

Ryski84 - is your building in Manchester by any chance? I’m in exactly the same boat - 8 stories, brick building, 1 row of cladding across penthouse. In our case, I’ve seen the building construction manual of materials and all of them appear to be Class A & adhere to the BS EN requirements set out in AN14... yet we’ve still only got to the desk top exercise stage and no progress on Certificate of Compliance... it should be so easy to issue for buildings with no/minimal cladding!

shau · 27 November 2019 at 1:35PM

haras_nosirrah wrote: »

We have been choosing lenders with free surveys. I can't put lenders on here as it is luck of the draw with the surveyor and I don't want to put something that could be construed as 'advice and then that lender comes back with the same issue.

What I do now is phone lenders and find out the likely surveying company and then speak to them and see if they have leant on any others recently. It doesn't always work as they won't always tell us but brokers have access to bdm's at banks who can check systems for other applications.

thanks for your answer. I understand what you are saying so can I ask you what surveyors you have had success with? Atm e.surv gave me trouble so when I switch lender I will make sure the lender does not use e.surv or I will get the same result. I have a cladding report from our management surveyors but just not a report from MHCLG which is what they require.

ryski84 · 27 November 2019 at 2:41PM

terzinho86 - That is a good point. I have looked in to NHBC guidance and the updated Building Regs 2019 position on this and from what I can see, standard masonry construction is of limited combustibility regardless of the insulation.

If you google 'building regulations approved document B 2019 it should take you to the right pdf (I can't share links as I'm a mse newbie and the forum won't let me).

Page 80 paragraph 10.6 says

In a building with a storey 18m or more in height (see Diagram D6 in Appendix D) any insulation product, filler material (such as the core materials of metal composite panels, sandwich panels and window spandrel panels but not including gaskets, sealants and similar) etc. used in the construction of an external wall should be class A2-s3, d2 or better (see Appendix . This restriction does not apply to masonry cavity wall construction which complies with Diagram 8.2 in Section 8. Where regulation 7(2) applies, that regulation prevails over all the provisions in this paragraph.

ryski84 · 27 November 2019 at 2:42PM

No, our building is in Peckham, London. The Landlord is L&Q.

Cladding of a combustible nature

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