Is this financial abuse? or am i over reacting?

thisisme2000 · 12 February 2019 at 11:05AM

Thanks for your response - I will give more info below

I'm keen for another perspective on my situation, and given the situation I don't feel I can involve family or friends as they are likely to have a biased opinion.

I'm married for over 7 years, 2 young children. We both work, myself earning around 36k and him about 37k.

Since we bought our current home the mortgage is in my name (as he had an error on his credit file due to an issue with the last house - now resolved but wouldn't be in time for our house purchase) This was 2 years ago.
I also pay the council tax, all of the kids clubs, buy all the kids clothes, I pay a personal loan for a large purchase we made together (I don't want to say what as I feel it may identify me - I know its a big world but I'm nervous re posting this). I take home approx. 1700 - why not £2300ish as it should be? (Pension and a lease car is deducted from my salary directly )and my essential outgoings are around 1650 - doesn't leave me with much. - A large part of that is presumably the mortgage? yes £510
He pays gas, electric and childcare - childcare is less than £200 per month, gas and electric - I don't know how much this is right now. - he must also pay for food; holidays / days out etc? yes he has all of the control here and decides if and when we can go out to do anything.

In our previous home, the mortgage was joint named, my parents gave us a deposit, the bill came out of his account but I paid for the childcare (which was way more than the mortgage at the time as both were at a childminder). I always had to ask him for money before the month ran out and when I think about it now I started to become really low in mood around that time. - Surely sorting this out before moving home would've been the best solution? yes I know that but this isnot really helpful right now is it?

Since moving again, I still have to ask him for money at the end of the month. I suggested several times that we should have a bills account and each pay a % of our salary (say50%) into this to cover it and some more for treats or saving etc. For some reason he has never been into the idea. - well at present he's not named on the mortgage; though as you're married that has little impact

I've found it harder and harder to ask him for money each month, so as a result I have been using my credit card, kidding myself on that everything was fine and under control. - this sounds more like an issue you have (you both) with communication, rather than finances I have accumulated some debt, and when I gave myself a kick up the !!! and moved it to a 0% card and cut it up I took a hard look at my finances,( I have secured a new job which I will start soon , its a pay rise with significant benefits, so I will have more income to pay the card off quicker) - I am left with very little at the end of the month and forced to have to ask for "spendies".
He has a personal loan, which he says was accumulated costs from when we last moved, and he took out another to clear it but didn't - he says he has been keeping it "just in case" - I am really not all that sure what this loan was really used for. He know tells me he has been keeping this money, just in case I messed up again (I had debt years ago but paid it off with an inheritance)

I have told him about the credit card, saying that we need to split the household bills as I cant keep pretending that I have more money than I do, and I shouldn't have to ask for money from him, as I find it extremely hard to do this for whatever reason...

His solution is that I should have my salary paid into his bank account as its the only way he can trust me again. - if you are running up secret debt and expecting him to pay it off there is obviously an element of that breach of trust (I Do not expect him to pay it off, I was clear from when I told him about it that I am now getting a pay rise and I am going to pay off the card with this new salary - I NEVER asked him for a penny towards this card) I suggested again a joint account which we both agree a monthly budget for "free spending each" and the rest goes on the necessities or debt/savings. He says he would feel better if it was all in his account. He will transfer me an allowance weekly or monthly and he will control the rest. - If you are happy with that, go for it (though better if you get it paid to your account and transfer it yourself); if you're not happy, don't

In my gut this feels very wrong, however I know I betrayed his trust by spending on my credit card and maybe this is the only way I will have his trust again.
On the other hand, I am a grown woman who made a mistake, realised it and is rectifying it within my means - how am I expected to survive on such a small amount each month? - you rectified it previously from an inheritance, and this time by asking him. That's not with-in your own means - again I am not asking him to pay my debt, just to half the monthly bills so that I can manage without begging for money from him.

Is this the punishment for messing up? should I just get on with it? - up to you. I wouldn't. But it sounds like your marriage is pretty shaky; so which is more important?

A quick Google search tells me that anyone who demands you hand over your salary - he isn't demanding this (he told me that me paying salary into his account is the only way forward) , doesn't pay half of the household bills - literally millions of people don't pay half the bills (mostly women...) whats your point here? , makes you ask for money - he isn't making you ask for money. This is just a crap relationship - I don't get how I am not being forced to ask for money? but freely spends on themselves are portraying financial abuse, or at the very least bullying...? - no. Maybe I am "catastrophising" I do know I have made mistakes.

thisisme2000 · 12 February 2019 at 11:22AM

Thanks so much Doozergirl,

I have done my own SOA, I just need to get him to sit down and fill in his part - Its been something I have tried several times before but I just can't him to join in, He does tell me that he has this debt and he has shown me his pay slips. When I looked at the SOA, I struggled to see what he is spending his money on, but I will have to find the right way to approach this with him again.

Regarding the income everyone is questioning, I pay a large sum to my pension, student loan, lease car, that plus tax is around £1200 in deductions per month, I recently reduced my hours (to allow for childcare) so im really on £34k, the 36k was an error.

Paddy's mum - re the housework, I decorated the entire house myself, he is a notorious "unfinished job man" as all his friends will berate him for - the garden - that's a sore point, he started it last year but its still an unusable mess. I pay for my car and its maintained through the deal I have at work. House work in general - he does it sometimes but its mostly me, I drop and pick the kids up 90% of the time, he does help.

I had a word with him at the weekend around this request re him controlling all of the money - I said it feels wrong - he said I know but I think its the only way. I suggest the joint account as before re splitting everything, he says he would just feel better if it was all in his account and I could log in and see it. And that we would do a budget for both of us to stick to, but I don't see why this needs to be done out of his account and not a joint one? he says he is worried ill just go nuts and spend a fortune...?

Is it worth noting that in my new job I''ll be making the most money?

thisisme2000 · 12 February 2019 at 11:28AM

Thanks for your post trailing spouse

trailingspouse wrote: »

You used your credit card rather than asking him for more money. This sends alarm bells ringing straight away.

He also has loans that you aren't entirely surely what they paid for. More alarm bells.

You need to insist that you both sit down and talk about money. And if he won't? For me, the alarm bells would be ringing so loud I would have to get out.

You've read about Financial Abuse - so now that you know what Financial Abuse looks like, and you've compared it to your situation, what do you think is happening?

I am scared that If I say no I wont hand over my full salary that there's nothing else that can be done here and its just game over, but worried that maybe I am being stubborn and should just do what he asks.

Please don't kid yourself that it is punishment that is in any way justified. It's all about control. He wants it. And it's convenient for him if you think that the punishment is justified because it will make you more likely to put up with it. It isn't, and you shouldn't.
Thanks for that - I feel If it was him, which to be honest it has been as he has these loans, I was a bit annoyed but more understanding.

And him wanting your salary paid into his account? No, No, No. Joint account, maybe.

Please

Comms69 · 12 February 2019 at 11:29AM

thisisme2000 wrote: »

Thanks for your response - I will give more info below

I also pay the council tax, all of the kids clubs, buy all the kids clothes, I pay a personal loan for a large purchase we made together (I don't want to say what as I feel it may identify me - I know its a big world but I'm nervous re posting this). I take home approx. 1700 - why not £2300ish as it should be? (Pension and a lease car is deducted from my salary directly )and my essential outgoings are around 1650 - doesn't leave me with much. - A large part of that is presumably the mortgage? yes £510
He pays gas, electric and childcare - childcare is less than £200 per month, gas and electric - I don't know how much this is right now. - he must also pay for food; holidays / days out etc? yes he has all of the control here and decides if and when we can go out to do anything. - again this is a communication issue. You need to talk to one another

In our previous home, the mortgage was joint named, my parents gave us a deposit, the bill came out of his account but I paid for the childcare (which was way more than the mortgage at the time as both were at a childminder). I always had to ask him for money before the month ran out and when I think about it now I started to become really low in mood around that time. - Surely sorting this out before moving home would've been the best solution? yes I know that but this isnot really helpful right now is it? - perhaps not, but from now on; talk

His solution is that I should have my salary paid into his bank account as its the only way he can trust me again. - if you are running up secret debt and expecting him to pay it off there is obviously an element of that breach of trust (I Do not expect him to pay it off, I was clear from when I told him about it that I am now getting a pay rise and I am going to pay off the card with this new salary - I NEVER asked him for a penny towards this card) - you are indirectly though as you are asking him to pay more, so you can pay off this debt I suggested again a joint account which we both agree a monthly budget for "free spending each" and the rest goes on the necessities or debt/savings. He says he would feel better if it was all in his account. He will transfer me an allowance weekly or monthly and he will control the rest. - If you are happy with that, go for it (though better if you get it paid to your account and transfer it yourself); if you're not happy, don't

In my gut this feels very wrong, however I know I betrayed his trust by spending on my credit card and maybe this is the only way I will have his trust again.
On the other hand, I am a grown woman who made a mistake, realised it and is rectifying it within my means - how am I expected to survive on such a small amount each month? - you rectified it previously from an inheritance, and this time by asking him. That's not with-in your own means - again I am not asking him to pay my debt, just to half the monthly bills so that I can manage without begging for money from him. - Again communication is key

Is this the punishment for messing up? should I just get on with it? - up to you. I wouldn't. But it sounds like your marriage is pretty shaky; so which is more important?

A quick Google search tells me that anyone who demands you hand over your salary - he isn't demanding this (he told me that me paying salary into his account is the only way forward) - that's up to him. If you don't agree; which you don't have to; you simply go your own ways .

doesn't pay half of the household bills - literally millions of people don't pay half the bills (mostly women...) whats your point here? - my point is that not paying half the bills IS NOT financial abuse.

makes you ask for money - he isn't making you ask for money. This is just a crap relationship - I don't get how I am not being forced to ask for money? - because you earn your own money. but freely spends on themselves are portraying financial abuse, or at the very least bullying...? - no. Maybe I am "catastrophising" I do know I have made mistakes.

(I've tidied this up somewhat - so OPs replies in blue, mine in red)

OP I agree that I wouldn't pay my salary to my OH either. But it's not financial abuse. It's a difference of opinions in your marriage

billy2shots · 12 February 2019 at 11:36AM

It doesn't sound the best of situations from the perspective you give.

It's difficult to judge your partner without the full facts and hearing his side of the story.

You do come across as someone who may lack good communication skills.
You ran up debt rather than speak to your partner, you are not prepared to talk with friends or family.

From the little information a stranger can take away from this it seems you both need to sit down and communicate better.

thisisme2000 · 12 February 2019 at 11:40AM

Thanks so much comms,

I can't get the hang of changing the colours on my replies - I'll need to figure that out.

Ok I do take your point of view on board and it's probably how he sees it too.

Communication has been lacking for some time now and I feel this is possibly a symptom of much bigger problems to be honest. He is very shut down and I have kind of given up trying to speak to him about things as he doesn't give me much back. Spends most of his time at work or sitting on his phone. I am frustrated to be honest.

He doesn't see things the way I do I guess.

Mojisola · 12 February 2019 at 11:44AM

thisisme2000 wrote: »

Communication has been lacking for some time now and I feel this is possibly a symptom of much bigger problems to be honest.

The whole thing sounds more like a general relationship problem than financial abuse.

If he won't sit down with you and complete an SOA and divide the family expenses so that you are both paying out about the same then I don't see any future for you as a couple.

Comms69 · 12 February 2019 at 11:55AM

thisisme2000 wrote: »

Thanks so much comms,

I can't get the hang of changing the colours on my replies - I'll need to figure that out. - no probs, when you quote, there's a small toolbar (similar to word)

Ok I do take your point of view on board and it's probably how he sees it too.

Communication has been lacking for some time now and I feel this is possibly a symptom of much bigger problems to be honest. He is very shut down and I have kind of given up trying to speak to him about things as he doesn't give me much back. Spends most of his time at work or sitting on his phone. I am frustrated to be honest. - Do you make time for each other?

He doesn't see things the way I do I guess.-conversely you don't see things the way he does

Are you still a couple, or just married?

thisisme2000 · 12 February 2019 at 12:06PM

Comms - we have been married just over 7 yrs.

I do need to see things from his point of view but it's hard when I can't get the info out of him.

I think he prefers to be the person who is in charge of the "day to day spending" which he maybe is the only way to move forward.

Having an agreement with a budget we both can follow then in principle I think this is a good idea, but I don't think this should be in an account I cannot access for the sake of principle - and what if something happens to him - and me and the kids can't access any money?

Thanks

paddy's_mum · 12 February 2019 at 12:08PM

I was thinking about this while doing the washing up and something occurred to me that you, OP, might want to consider.

Your post is very much 'me,me,me' but not in the usual sense of that little saying.

You ran up a (smallish?) amount of debt on YOUR credit card.

You ran that up paying out for YOUR family's needs.

You are paying it back out of YOUR salary.

You are communicating YOUR situation.

YOU are suggesting fair and reasonable ways forward.

You are hitting a brick wall. Perhaps it's time that your husband had it made frighteningly clear to him that unless he works with you, he will in time be facing enormous financial scrutiny as part of an action for divorce when the burdens of inequality wear you down to the point that you cannot carry on.

I also found myself fretting at your use of the word 'betrayal'. Somehow, that didn't sit right with me. In the grand scheme of things, exactly what betrayal have you committed that warrants you describing the current situation in such terms?

Adultery? Massive financial shenanigans? Huge gambling debt? Domestic violence? Tissues of lies? Alcohol or drug abuse?

No? So now look at the whole situation again and decide for yourself exactly where this so-called betrayal took place.

Perhaps seeking the help of a relationship counsellor might be of value, even if only to be able to freely express your thoughts, resentments and fears.

I wish you luck.

Is this financial abuse? or am i over reacting?

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