UKCPS/UPP Same Company?

dave808 · 27 March 2018 at 3:39PM

Hi,

I received a PCN from UKCPS a while back, and have just been ignoring it, probably should have responded. Also have just got my first letter from DRP claiming legal action . However the letter from DRP claims that I am in credit to a completely different company, UK Parking Patrol Office.

So the letters to the keeper so far have been from UKCPS not UPP.

What would I do under these circumstances as I am guessing there is no way in hell I should be paying a company I have no received and correspondence from? Are these two companies linked?

Fruitcake · 27 March 2018 at 3:43PM

The Keeper shouldn't ignore a PCN. Not since the law changed in 2012.

UKCPS and UPP are different companies, so this looks like two different PCNs.

Post 4 of the NEWBIES tells you how to deal with debt collectors. You should however treat this second one as the NTK, since it is the first correspondence received about an alleged parking charge. You should therefore appeal to the PPC using the template from the NEWBIES telling them you consider this to be the NTK.

The rest of the NEWBIES tells you how to deal with PCNs.

Make sure you complain to your MP about this unregulated scam.

These are some of the comments made by the MPs in Parliament concerning the unregulated parking industry (Feb 2018):

https://hansard.parliament.uk/commons/2018-02-02/debates/CC84AF5E-AC6E-4E14-81B1-066E6A892807/Parking(CodeOfPractice)Bill

''Rip-offs from car park Cowboys must stop''; unfair treatment; signage deliberately confusing to ensure a PCN is issued; ''years of abuse by rogue parking companies''; bloodsuckers; ''the current system of regulation is hopeless, like putting Dracula in charge of the blood-bank''; extortionate fines; rogue operators; ''sense of injustice''; unfair charges and notices; wilfully misleading; signage is a deliberate act to deceive or mislead; ''confusing signs are often deliberate, to trap innocent drivers''; unreasonable; a curse; harassing; operating in a disgusting way; appeals service is no guarantee of a fair hearing; loathed; outrageous scam; dodgy practice; outrageous abuse; unscrupulous practices; ''the British Parking Association is as much use as a multi-storey car park in the Gobi desert''; and finally, by way of unanimous conclusion: ''we need to crack down on these rogue companies. They are an absolute disgrace to this country. Ordinary motorists and ordinary residents should not have to put up with this''.

These are the exact words used, so you should quote them to your MP in a complaint and ask him/her to contact Sir Greg Knight MP if he wants further information about this scam.

dave808 · 27 March 2018 at 3:54PM

This is definitely just one charge, I have not received any correspondence from UPPO only from UKCPC, the last letter from them threatens debt collection, so have DRP just made an error, or are both companies really run by the same people?

The area where the claimed PCN occurred does have extremely good signage so not sure how beneficial that reply would be?

I also have only received one letter from DRP. Not sure how to proceed here as I am convinced this is all one parking charge.

Fruitcake · 27 March 2018 at 3:57PM

Edit your post to remove information about who parked. You were asked to read the NEWBIES but it is clear that you have not.

I would appeal to UPPO using the information from DRP and see what they say. If it's a different case, all well and good, you will be following the correct process. If it's the same case for a different company, then you have additional evidence of a scam that you can use if this goes to court.

It is not unknown for scammers to set debt collectors on a motorist without sending a PCN/NTK beforehand, so you need to be absolutely sure they are not the same case. A simple copy and paste and send will do this.

dave808 · 27 March 2018 at 6:30PM

Apologies for the error, I did read through the Newbies section but thought this was a bit of an odd case. Would rather not be taken to court at this stage, is it worth sending the template email to both companies and await the response of both letters?

*Edit* just double checked all the dates from both correspondence and I am 99% sure they are talking about the same PCN.

Thanks for help

Coupon-mad · 27 March 2018 at 6:45PM

Email DRPlus and ask for evidence because you are completely unaware of any PCN from UKPPO:

info@drpl.co.uk

You MUST quote their 'reference' (on the right of letters sometimes) and your name/address.

When they cough up details of the UKCPS PCN, just ignore them/Zenith. Waste of time company.

The_Deep · 27 March 2018 at 6:57PM

This is an entirely unregulated industry which is scamming the public with inflated claims for minor breaches of contracts for alleged parking offences, aided and abetted by a handful of low-rent solicitors.

Parking Eye, CPM, Smart, and another company have already been named and shamed, as has Gladstones Solicitors, and BW Legal, (these two law firms take hundreds of these cases to court each year). They lose most of them, and have been reported to the regulatory authority by an M.P. for unprofessional conduct

Hospital car parks and residential complex tickets have been especially mentioned.

The problem has become so rampant that MPs have agreed to enact a Bill to regulate these scammers. Watch the video of the Second Reading in the HofC recently.

http://parliamentlive.tv/event/index/2f0384f2-eba5-4fff-ab07-cf24b6a22918?in=12:49:41

and complain in the most robust terms to your MP. With a fair wind they will be out of business by Christmas.

dave808 · 28 March 2018 at 8:07PM

So quick update, after double checking all the paperwork I received since the initial PCN ticket.

The ticket was in-fact from PPO, but then all further correspondence was from UKCPS, including the NTK. Im sure about this all being one claim, as the dates from both match up.

Attached is the response from PPO, using the template sent from the Newbies Forum, also to note the mention that they sent a copy of the NTK in the email response, which they did not.

Please be advised that the time in which to submit a challenge has now expired and access to the Independent Appeals Service is no longer available.

However, in order to resolve the matter, I will offer the following comments as to why this PCN was correctly issued and is still payable:

The site in question is subject to terms and conditions, which are stated on signs throughout the area. Those signs clearly state: !!!8220;No Parking In This Area", see attached.

Under Section 10, Right to prevent processing likely to cause damage or distress.

(1) Subject to subsection (2), an individual is entitled at any time by notice in writing to a data controller to require the data controller at the end of such period as is reasonable in the circumstances to cease, or not to begin, processing, or processing for a specified purpose or in a specified manner, any personal data in respect of which he is the data subject, on the ground that, for specified reasons-
(a) the processing of those data or their processing for that purpose or in that manner is causing or is likely to cause substantial damage or substantial distress to him or to another, and
(b) that damage or distress is or would be unwarranted.
(2) Subsection (1) does not apply-
(a) in a case where any of the conditions in paragraphs 1 to 4 of Schedule 2 is met, or
(b) in such other cases as may be prescribed by the [F1 Secretary of State] by order.

However, as per the Information Commissioner!!!8217;s guidelines you have no right to object to the processing of your data if -

!!!8226; You have consented to the processing;
!!!8226; The processing is necessary:
in relation to a contract that the individual has entered into; or
because the individual has asked for something to be done so they can enter into a contract;
!!!8226; The processing is necessary because of a legal obligation that applies to you (other than a contractual obligation); or
!!!8226; The processing is necessary to protect the individual!!!8217;s !!!8220;vital interests!!!8221;.

We believe that your request falls into the above category.

You suggest that we cannot process your data as you were not the driver of the vehicle at the time of the contravention and you cannot be held liable for the parking charge as the registered keeper of the vehicle as the Notice to Keeper is not compliant with the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 for several reasons.

I enclose a copy of the Notice to Keeper which does show it is compliant with the above statute.

!!!8226; The period of parking is clearly referred to.
!!!8226; The discounted period was stated on the Notice to Driver placed on the vehicle. No discount is required to be given on the Notice to Keeper.
!!!8226; Access was given to the Independent Appeals Service on the Notice to Driver. Reference is made to this on the Notice to Keeper.

Furthermore, at no stage have you detailed how you believe our actions are likely to cause substantial damage and/or distress.

You have referred to several cases to support your claim that your data is being mishandled. The cases referred to are not binding precedent and considering the above we believe we have full authority to process your data and you have no valid reason to object to it.

Please forward any future correspondence directly to Debt Recovery Plus Ltd.

Where do I stand now, as in my eyes PPO never sent me a NTK, and I have evidence that I have received this from a completely different company. Whole thing is a bit confusing and I dont want to pay PPO to then find UKCPS are coming after me still.

Coupon-mad · 29 March 2018 at 1:29AM

The ticket was in-fact from PPO, but then all further correspondence was from UKCPS, including the NTK. Im sure about this all being one claim, as the dates from both match up.

Can't be, they are NOT the same company. No connection at all.

You do realise you won't be paying anyone? You are only at tedious old debt collector stage...

dave808 · 29 March 2018 at 11:49AM

How else can you explain the dates both matching up exactly, I will write to UKCPS to get evidence as I have from PPO, but I am 100% sure that I have not got any other PCN's and that I will receive the same evidence, im pretty sure something fishy is going on and these companies are somehow related.

What if they do decide to take me to court, what legs to I really have to stand on!?

Umkomaas · 29 March 2018 at 11:58AM

What if they do decide to take me to court, what legs to I really have to stand on!?

What if 'who' takes you to court?

As you've provided very little detail on the actual parking event, difficult to say 'what legs' you might have. No need for the details now until/unless you get a claim. We help motorist successfully defend claims brought by parking companies, in the vast majority cases. Neither company is a voracious litigant.

Sort out who you're dealing with first.

UKCPS/UPP Same Company?

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