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Contentious PCN, details and the Road markings arguable
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andy_duncan
Posts: 8 Forumite
Looking for some almost friendly advice or vague encouragement on the point of a Parking ticket I have received.
Our local town (Yarm) has been gradually decimated by the Parking Czars actively pursuing the Motorists to a point of killing the local businesses as shoppers fear for visiting & parking there.
(separate rant needed as to how we can try to get this changed :mad: )
Anyway, I have been ticketed in location outside a mates house on the cobbles that the Ticket claims is a Bus Stop or Stand. It was/ is potentially Double Yellow lines too but that is not what the ticket states and so that’s what I want to challenge !
I simply filled in the form on the Stockton Council website to appeal the ticket stating the place I parked is not a Bus Stand, and also referenced the Diagram 1025.1 and road markings for the Bus Stand.
I do not believe the area I parked is :
a) a Bus stand,
b) Incorrectly marked
c) is certainly not the area mentioned in the letter kicking back my appeal as "causes obstructions to buses [ which only stop on the road in the area marked as “Bus Stop” ] and passengers boring (sic) and alighting [ which they do at the curb side where the buses bloody well stop - i.e not the bloody cobbles where I was parked.]
I have noticed that the Google Earth photo of the place (ok ok hardly admissible by law I know) shows that in 2003 (?) you could park where I parked.
I have asked for a Copy of the Traffic Regulation Orders (TRO) but obviously not had anything sent through yet.
Below are the ticket, kick back in face letter, and a few photos'
I have since noticed (and ashamaedly tagged it to the bottom of another thread) the ticket states :
location : High Street YRM,
where it is in fact: High Street, YARM
If anyone can be helpful - suggest the best course of action or simply want to point and laugh fair do's but I did strenuously point out to the traffic warden that it wasn't a Bus stop where I parked and feel to hell with them , its time for a win to the little people !
Help anyone ?
I realise I am maybe pushing my luck - granted - however the pictures maybe don't demonstrate that the cobble area has never even seen a bus stop on it EVER.
Looking at the three photos below you can see that the Cobble area has had three different guises in recent years :
firstly the "Bus stop" half encroached on the Cobbles, and you could park 'inboard' of the Marking.
then they "Hatched" all of the Cobbles adjacent to the Bus Stop - Not sure What Hatched Lines are meant to prove, but someone seems to be parked on them any way !!
now the "Bus Stop" just seems to of Swelled to reache the curb.......
The issue is one for the little people - they are chopping and changing the Cobble stones to suit whatever the Line writers fancy that year -
My arguements are going to be (in no particular order) - but specifically against the contents of the ticket - the reference to the BUS STOP not the Yellow line.
Lack of signage along Cobbles referring to Bus Stop
Unable to view or see the Bus Stop Plate from Cobbles Area
Incorrect Spelling of Yarm as the location on the ticket
Incorrect Line at the Base of the "bay", and incorrect connection between the Base Line and Curbside Line.
What do you reckon the summary outcome is likely to be ?
Any better advise comments or way to nip it in the bud?
Our local town (Yarm) has been gradually decimated by the Parking Czars actively pursuing the Motorists to a point of killing the local businesses as shoppers fear for visiting & parking there.
(separate rant needed as to how we can try to get this changed :mad: )
Anyway, I have been ticketed in location outside a mates house on the cobbles that the Ticket claims is a Bus Stop or Stand. It was/ is potentially Double Yellow lines too but that is not what the ticket states and so that’s what I want to challenge !
I simply filled in the form on the Stockton Council website to appeal the ticket stating the place I parked is not a Bus Stand, and also referenced the Diagram 1025.1 and road markings for the Bus Stand.
I do not believe the area I parked is :
a) a Bus stand,
b) Incorrectly marked
c) is certainly not the area mentioned in the letter kicking back my appeal as "causes obstructions to buses [ which only stop on the road in the area marked as “Bus Stop” ] and passengers boring (sic) and alighting [ which they do at the curb side where the buses bloody well stop - i.e not the bloody cobbles where I was parked.]
I have noticed that the Google Earth photo of the place (ok ok hardly admissible by law I know) shows that in 2003 (?) you could park where I parked.
I have asked for a Copy of the Traffic Regulation Orders (TRO) but obviously not had anything sent through yet.
Below are the ticket, kick back in face letter, and a few photos'
I have since noticed (and ashamaedly tagged it to the bottom of another thread) the ticket states :
location : High Street YRM,
where it is in fact: High Street, YARM
If anyone can be helpful - suggest the best course of action or simply want to point and laugh fair do's but I did strenuously point out to the traffic warden that it wasn't a Bus stop where I parked and feel to hell with them , its time for a win to the little people !
Help anyone ?
I realise I am maybe pushing my luck - granted - however the pictures maybe don't demonstrate that the cobble area has never even seen a bus stop on it EVER.
Looking at the three photos below you can see that the Cobble area has had three different guises in recent years :
firstly the "Bus stop" half encroached on the Cobbles, and you could park 'inboard' of the Marking.
then they "Hatched" all of the Cobbles adjacent to the Bus Stop - Not sure What Hatched Lines are meant to prove, but someone seems to be parked on them any way !!
now the "Bus Stop" just seems to of Swelled to reache the curb.......
The issue is one for the little people - they are chopping and changing the Cobble stones to suit whatever the Line writers fancy that year -
My arguements are going to be (in no particular order) - but specifically against the contents of the ticket - the reference to the BUS STOP not the Yellow line.
Lack of signage along Cobbles referring to Bus Stop
Unable to view or see the Bus Stop Plate from Cobbles Area
Incorrect Spelling of Yarm as the location on the ticket
Incorrect Line at the Base of the "bay", and incorrect connection between the Base Line and Curbside Line.
What do you reckon the summary outcome is likely to be ?
Any better advise comments or way to nip it in the bud?
0
Comments
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I happened to be driving pas the scene of the Crime -
My point is that from where I am, you can see the stupid bus is blocking the road, not using the layby / cobbles, you can see there is no plae along the layby cobble or indication to say you can't pull in there.
Councils!
0 -
Two pieces of info they may assist.
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si2002/20023113.htm#sch19
http://www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/roads/tss/tsmanual/ (see chapter 5 page 107)
If they believe that cobbled area forms part of a legally marked bus stop clearway then they are raving mad and in the wrong job.
Bust stop clearways do not need to be enacted by a Traffic Regulation Order (TRO) as the contravention is enacted by section 36(1) of the Road Traffic Act and regulation 29(1) of the Traffic Signs Regulations and General Directions 2002.
It is worth getting hold of the TRO to see whether a double yellow line restriction does run through the cobbled section. If it does then you can certainly argue that the PCN must be cancelled as the wrong contravention has been used. Although I will be very surprised if they have the nerve to let this case go to adjudication considering you were not prked within the yellow prohibition markings of a bus stop.0 -
TheBogsDollocks wrote: »Two pieces of info they may assist.
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si2002/20023113.htm#sch19
http://www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/roads/tss/tsmanual/ (see chapter 5 page 107)
If they believe that cobbled area forms part of a legally marked bus stop clearway then they are raving mad and in the wrong job.
Bust stop clearways do not need to be enacted by a Traffic Regulation Order (TRO) as the contravention is enacted by section 36(1) of the Road Traffic Act and regulation 29(1) of the Traffic Signs Regulations and General Directions 2002.
It is worth getting hold of the TRO to see whether a double yellow line restriction does run through the cobbled section. If it does then you can certainly argue that the PCN must be cancelled as the wrong contravention has been used. Although I will be very surprised if they have the nerve to let this case go to adjudication considering you were not prked within the yellow prohibition markings of a bus stop.
Thanks - much along the same lines as my thoughts ( I amreaching out for assistance as I simply have never 'fought' a ticket or NTO before.)
Point noted / agreed on the TRO for Bus Stops - I did actually get sent a set of the TRO's for the High Street and Bus stops do not form a part of it.
I shall check the point you have made regarding the Double yellow line and it running the length of the cobbles (inside along curb or along gully as the rest of the High street is)
the first 'informal' has been knocked back, seconds out Round 2 !
Thanks0 -
wrong contravention issued appeal! should have been code 01 with an observation time the code they booked you for is instant hence could argue you were loading!0
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thanks but 48hrs too late !
I sent my reply to the NTO away yesterday.
Fingers crossed..
I am not sure I fully understand the point you are making tho......0
This discussion has been closed.
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