Data Protection Query: Taking Photos of Kids
DJBenson
Posts: 445 Forumite
A situation has arisen and I wanted to dig a little deeper into the social and legal implications from you good people.
My daughter attends a ballet class aimed at very young children (less than 4) and a debate has kicked off about the taking and sharing of photographs in the class, especially considering (due to the nature of the activity) the children are wearing relatively revealing clothing.
A parent has taken a video of their child and inadvertently captured other children in the video. They have then shared the video to social media.
From what I can gather, the above is fine (the law allows for the taking of photographs in public places for personal use - sharing to social media may be pushing the boundaries of "personal use" but lets say that this is acceptable).
The debate is more around the ballet company sharing the video to their timeline. If a school or other organisation wants to use a photo or video of children, they generally need to get the consent of every parent whose child features in the video, but in this instance, they are not the authors of said video so do not feel they need consent.
The question is, even thought they are not the authors, they are using the video for promotional purposes and subsequently removing the "personal use" element from the original video, so where does that leave the parents from a data protection perspective.
If there are any lawyers or childcare professionals in the house, I'd be very keen to get your views.
Over to the floor - don't hold back
My daughter attends a ballet class aimed at very young children (less than 4) and a debate has kicked off about the taking and sharing of photographs in the class, especially considering (due to the nature of the activity) the children are wearing relatively revealing clothing.
A parent has taken a video of their child and inadvertently captured other children in the video. They have then shared the video to social media.
From what I can gather, the above is fine (the law allows for the taking of photographs in public places for personal use - sharing to social media may be pushing the boundaries of "personal use" but lets say that this is acceptable).
The debate is more around the ballet company sharing the video to their timeline. If a school or other organisation wants to use a photo or video of children, they generally need to get the consent of every parent whose child features in the video, but in this instance, they are not the authors of said video so do not feel they need consent.
The question is, even thought they are not the authors, they are using the video for promotional purposes and subsequently removing the "personal use" element from the original video, so where does that leave the parents from a data protection perspective.
If there are any lawyers or childcare professionals in the house, I'd be very keen to get your views.
Over to the floor - don't hold back
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Comments
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From what I can gather, the above is fine (the law allows for the taking of photographs in public places for personal use - sharing to social media may be pushing the boundaries of "personal use" but lets say that this is acceptable).
Sharing to social media would be "publishing" unless the privacy was extremely tight. Given that Facebook would allow "friends" of anyone tagged in the video to view, I wouldn't automatically consider that private.The question is, even thought they are not the authors, they are using the video for promotional purposes and subsequently removing the "personal use" element from the original video, so where does that leave the parents from a data protection perspective.
Totally. Once the video is used for promotional purposes it is not personal. Do the company require or ask parents to sign a consent form when they join? I am very surprised that they haven't secured written consent from a parent of everyone in the video before publishing.I'm a Forum Ambassador on The Coronavirus Boards as well as the housing, mortgages and student money saving boards. I volunteer to help get your forum questions answered and keep the forum running smoothly. Forum Ambassadors are not moderators and don't read every post. If you spot an illegal or inappropriate post then please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com (it's not part of my role to deal with this). Any views are mine and not the official line of MoneySavingExpert.com.0 -
Is a picture of someone 'data'? I'm assuming the children aren't named.0
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Auntie-Dolly wrote: »Is a picture of someone 'data'? I'm assuming the children aren't named.
No (subject to a few exceptions)
There is no law that governs this - "data protection" is often wrongly quoted as an excuse for preventing similar things, but ultimately it comes down to the policies of the ballet school and common sense of the parents.
Regarding your comments, it would depend on whether posting a link to another person's video is "official use" or "commercial purposes". Whatever the DPA says, if other parents object or have not consented to such use the ballet school should certainly not be using the video themselves and be speaking to the parent concerned and maybe issuing/confirming some rules to all parents.
Do the school have a policy on photos/videos that parents are given when children join .... if not, they probably should.
Once posted, nothing on the internet should ever be considered private (whatever settings are used) nor can it ever be deleted.0 -
Sharing to social media would be "publishing" unless the privacy was extremely tight. Given that Facebook would allow "friends" of anyone tagged in the video to view, I wouldn't automatically consider that private.
I've just double-checked the post and the original post is "Public" so that is directly in breach of the data protection rules as I understand it.Totally. Once the video is used for promotional purposes it is not personal. Do the company require or ask parents to sign a consent form when they join? I am very surprised that they haven't secured written consent from a parent of everyone in the video before publishing.
The email from their head office says;Email_response wrote:To confirm where things stand with things like this - if a member of our staff is taking photographs or film in class, permission must be granted by all parents signing our model release form, which is something we do and have done in the past but it is very rare and you would receive plenty of notice before anything like this was to happen in your class.
However, there are no laws preventing somebody (i.e a parent) from taking pictures of children in public places, specifically there are no laws preventing them from taking pictures of their child and other children surrounding them at a sports day, school play, babyballet class or otherwise.
I think they are playing down the law around what can and cannot be done - there isn't a blanket "anybody can take photos in public" law as far as I can tell - what their is is a "personal use" clause in the law and by making the post "public" on social media, and then a commercial entity using that post for promotional purposes, I believe they have invalidated that clause?0 -
This page has a lot of info around which parts of various laws can be interpreted as being relevant - interestingly it could be interpreted that by stopping a parent from photographing/filming their own child might actually be a breach of their rights.
http://childprotectionresource.online/category/taking-photographs-of-children/The Data Protection Act does not apply to photographs taken for purely personal reasons, for example by parents or grandparents at sports days or school plays (a photo album is fine but there might be a question mark over whether or not a photo published on a Facebook timeline with no privacy settings could be ‘purely personal’)0 -
Surprisingly balanced and well-researched piece that dispels a lot of myths (i.e. stuff that people make up as an excuse when they don't actually know the law).This page has a lot of info around which parts of various laws can be interpreted as being relevant - interestingly it could be interpreted that by stopping a parent from photographing/filming their own child might actually be a breach of their rights.
http://childprotectionresource.online/category/taking-photographs-of-children/Proud member of the wokerati, though I don't eat tofu.Home is where my books are.Solar PV 5.2kWp system, SE facing, >1% shading, installed March 2019.Mortgage free July 20230 -
This isn't France, in this country what is not forbidden is permitted, not the other way round.I think they are playing down the law around what can and cannot be done - there isn't a blanket "anybody can take photos in public" law as far as I can tell
The law that influences most behaviour on Facebook is "it is easier to beg forgiveness than to ask permission". If you ask the ballet company to delete the post (or the parent to delete the original video, or set it to friends-only) they probably will.
The legal implications are: Have they committed a criminal offence - no. Are you entitled to damages - almost certainly not. That leaves the social implications.
Revealing what? They're 4. If you're worried about what perverts might get off on, you're wasting your mental energy. They're perverts, what gets them off is completely random - ordinary children's clothing, cartoon characters, chair legs, talking about plimsolls on MSE. Changing your behaviour because you don't want to do anything that might arouse a pervert - without you or your children being affected or even aware - is a mental black hole from which there is no escape.especially considering (due to the nature of the activity) the children are wearing relatively revealing clothing.0 -
A situation has arisen and I wanted to dig a little deeper into the social and legal implications from you good people.
My daughter attends a ballet class aimed at very young children (less than 4) and a debate has kicked off about the taking and sharing of photographs in the class, especially considering (due to the nature of the activity) the children are wearing relatively revealing clothing. - really? I'd suggest if it's more revealing than they'd wear on a public beach - stop taking them to the class!
A parent has taken a video of their child and inadvertently captured other children in the video. They have then shared the video to social media. - There is legally no implication to this.
From what I can gather, the above is fine (the law allows for the taking of photographs in public places for personal use - sharing to social media may be pushing the boundaries of "personal use" but lets say that this is acceptable). - It's fine. Personal means, non commercial. Though it's fine to take pictures of anyone in public for commercial use too, just has some implications where the person is the subject of the photo/video.
The debate is more around the ballet company sharing the video to their timeline. - they need to have set up a policy for both social media and safeguarding. If a school or other organisation wants to use a photo or video of children, they generally need to get the consent of every parent whose child features in the video, - sort of. Most places will have membership conditions and this would typically be part of it. Except for safeguarding issues. but in this instance, they are not the authors of said video so do not feel they need consent. - Depends on what the T&Cs say, basically. Its not criminal at any rate.
The question is, even thought they are not the authors, they are using the video for promotional purposes and subsequently removing the "personal use" element from the original video, so where does that leave the parents from a data protection perspective. - This is not, and never has been, a data protection issue. Refer to the T&Cs of membership.
If there are any lawyers or childcare professionals in the house, I'd be very keen to get your views.
Over to the floor - don't hold back
It's impossible to give accurate advice without knowing what you agreed to when you signed up.0 -
I think they are playing down the law around what can and cannot be done - there isn't a blanket "anybody can take photos in public" law as far as I can tell
Really badly worded on reflection.Malthusian wrote: »If you ask the ballet company to delete the post (or the parent to delete the original video, or set it to friends-only) they probably will.
They have refused stating they are not breaking the law which it appears they are not.0
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