SWT and their interpretation of the Super Off Peak fare code

iggy12a · 7 December 2016 at 2:50PM

SWTrains offer a Super Off Peak ticket from Portsmouth & Southsea to Waterloo with a fare validity code of BE. Looking this up on National Rail it gives the following evening restriction:

Not valid on trains timed to depart:

London Terminals (except London Paddington, below) after 04:29 and before 11:00, and after 15:59 and before 19:00.

My interpretation of this, is that it is not valid from 16:00 to 18:59 inclusive, but checking the Journey Planner, it does not let you travel on the 19:00 departure.
I rang to check with Customer Services, and the man I spoke to had to seek clarification from a supervisor. Apparently I could make a complaint, which I have done, but for now their interpretation of "after 15:59 and before 19:00" is any train between 16:00 and 19:00.
I realize this is only 1 minute we are talking about, but the overall effect is that either I have to wait for the 19:30 departure to complete my journey, or buy a higher priced Off Peak ticket.
Surely SWTrains can't just make up the rules as they go along?

Emily1975 · 7 December 2016 at 4:38PM

As a professional mathematician (or even just someone who simply speaks English), I can confirm that 19:00 is most definitely not before 19:00.

Are you trying to catch a train to or from Waterloo? The restriction (as you have stated it) applies to trains departing from Waterloo, but in your opening paragraph you talk about a train to Waterloo? Does that make any difference?

iggy12a · 7 December 2016 at 10:50PM

The ticket is a return from Portsmouth to London. I am referring to the return leg from Waterloo in the evening.

rdr · 8 December 2016 at 10:56AM

I would read that as a carefully and clearly written sentance intended to exclude a 16:00 train and to include a 19:00 train, as such you should be able use it on the 19:00 train.
I imagine this problem is a result of some sloppy programming, some one has used "greater than or equal to" when they should have used "greater than."

yorkie2 · 8 December 2016 at 11:36PM

The public restriction text ends the barred period at 1859, but the electronic data ends it at 1900.

For the sake of £5.90 I would have simply boarded the 1900 regardless.

In the unlikely event that an excess fare of £5.90 was charged, I would appeal it, and put in a complaint to London Travelwatch. I would also inform the regulator (Office of Rail & Road) that a consumer law breach has occurred and insist they investigate. I would also inform the Department of Transport that a franchise breach has occurred.

You can do those things now, but as you were not actually charged, it is harder to demonstrate any actual loss.

I know someone at SWT who would have been encouraged to give you a positive outcome, too...

iggy12a · 13 February 2017 at 10:07PM

Just an update that I have received the following reply form SWTrains, some 2 months (so much for a 20 working day response) after my query was logged:

[FONT=&quot]"I am sorry for the confusion over the terms and conditions of the Super Offpeak ticket, which can change according to the journey involved. The advice given is to check the journey concerned on any of the available journey planners for further clarification. However, I can confirm that the ticket is not valid on any trains which leave London Waterloo from 1500 to 1900, which means it cannot be used on any train leaving at 1900."[/FONT]

There is absolutely no attempt to justify this against the timings given against the fare restriction.

I will raise a complaint with London Travelwatch.

yorkie2 · 14 February 2017 at 10:15PM

Let us know how you get on.

You can also escalate the matter to the ORR.

iggy12a · 8 March 2017 at 10:39AM

Update:
SWTrains finally admitted that the wording on www.nre.co.uk/BE is wrong and will seek to have it amended as soon as possible. However in the meantime, they still say that because the Journey Planner has been set (the way they want it), then travel is still not allowed on the 19:00 departure.
I complained to London Travelwatch who whilst agreeing the wording was sloppy, sided with SWT in that the Journey Planner is the definitive tool to use to decide on which trains a ticket is valid.
The ORR said that they had no powers in respect of the TOCs fare policies and referred me to the DfT, so I have today made my complaint to the DfT.

martindow · 8 March 2017 at 12:01PM

Does it stop at Clapham Junction? If so and you got yourself there you could catch the same train without falling foul of the 19.00 cut-off.

wealdroam · 8 March 2017 at 12:21PM

martindow wrote: »

Does it stop at Clapham Junction? If so and you got yourself there you could catch the same train without falling foul of the 19.00 cut-off.

I don't think so.

The text quoted in the original post is "timed to depart London Terminals...".

Wherever you join the train, it still departs London Terminals at the same time.

And no, Clapham Junction isn't a London Terminal.

glider3560 · 9 March 2017 at 8:20AM

iggy12a wrote: »

I complained to London Travelwatch who whilst agreeing the wording was sloppy, sided with SWT in that the Journey Planner is the definitive tool to use to decide on which trains a ticket is valid.

The new style tickets specifically tell you to visit https://www.nationalrail.co.uk/BE on the front. There is nothing about the journey planner being the definitive tool.

SWT and their interpretation of the Super Off Peak fare code

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