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  • FIRST POST
    • MattyLTW
    • By MattyLTW 13th Mar 18, 8:36 AM
    • 4Posts
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    MattyLTW
    Daily rest between shifts
    • #1
    • 13th Mar 18, 8:36 AM
    Daily rest between shifts 13th Mar 18 at 8:36 AM
    Hello all,

    I currently work daily rotating shifts, one week would be
    Mon - 10:30 - 19:30
    Tue - 06:00 - 15:00
    Wed - 10:30 - 19:30
    Thurs - 06:00 - 15:00
    Fri - 10:30 - 19:30
    Sat - 06:00 - 10:00

    The following week the shifts would be opposite with no Saturday.

    My question is, does the 11 hour rest between shifts rule not apply to me? As when I finish at 19:30 I'm not getting 11 hours off before starting again at 06:00.

    The GOV website states - Daily rest
    Workers have the right to 11 hours rest between working days, eg if they finish work at 8pm, they shouldnít start work again until 7am the next day.

    I have put this forward to my bosses and HR and HR have replied with the following...


    Hi Matthew,

    Having looked further in to your query over your shift pattern and rest between shifts, I can confirm that we are within the law to set the shift pattern you work, and that the rest obligations by law are being met.

    A worker may be entitled to compensatory rest if:

    ∑ theyíre a shift worker and canít take daily or weekly rest breaks between ending one shift and starting another

    Compensatory rest is allowed when a worker has to work through a rest period. The employee is entitled to take the rest when possible, the regulations suggest that, as long as a worker receives at least 90 hours' rest per week on average, then the rest obligations are being met.

    The period of compensatory rest allowed should be equal to the interrupted portion of rest - not the entire break.

    Your shifts are on a rolling cycle over 2 weeks as follows: (total rest in the 24 hour period in red)



    Monday 0600-1500 15 hours

    Tuesday 1030-1930 15 hours

    Wednesday 0600-1500 15 hours

    Thursday 1030-1930 15 hours

    Friday 0600-1500 15 hours



    Saturday 24 hours

    Sunday 24 hours



    TOTAL WEEKLY REST: 123 hours



    Monday 1030-1930 15 hours

    Tuesday 0600-1500 15 hours

    Wednesday 1030-1930 15 hours

    Thursday 0600-1500 15 hours

    Friday 1030-1930 15 hours

    Saturday 0800-1200 20 hours



    Sunday 24 hours



    TOTAL WEEKLY REST: 119 hours



    So minimum daily rest between working shifts is 10.5 hours and the maximum is 19.5 hours so we easily compensate for the 30 minutes reduction from 11 hours on the back-to-back shifts (finish 1930 start 0600).



    Minimum weekly rest between work shifts is 42 hours and the maximum is 67.5 hours, including your weekend rest, so again well within all legal requirements.



    This information is taken from the ACAS website should you wish to review it.


    I just wanted to check this is correct? Apologies for the long post, any help would be greatly appreciated.

    Thank you
Page 1
    • Smodlet
    • By Smodlet 13th Mar 18, 9:18 AM
    • 3,482 Posts
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    Smodlet
    • #2
    • 13th Mar 18, 9:18 AM
    • #2
    • 13th Mar 18, 9:18 AM
    I don't suppose they could make it the same hours every day for one week, then the opposite pattern of hours the following week? Why do your hours change every other day? How disruptive that must be for you. Common sense chasm.

    Sorry, I don't know the answer to your question but your employer seems to think they are doing nothing wrong. I guess your options are suck it up or find another job.
    What is this life if, sweet wordsmith, we have no time to take the pith?
    Every stew starts with the first onion.
    I took it upon myself to investigate a trifle; it had custard, jelly, soggy sponge things...
    • agrinnall
    • By agrinnall 13th Mar 18, 9:19 AM
    • 20,490 Posts
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    agrinnall
    • #3
    • 13th Mar 18, 9:19 AM
    • #3
    • 13th Mar 18, 9:19 AM
    It appears to be correct, information on compensatory rest breaks on gov.uk confirm what ACAS say.

    https://www.gov.uk/rest-breaks-work/compensatory-rest
    • getmore4less
    • By getmore4less 13th Mar 18, 9:50 AM
    • 32,419 Posts
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    getmore4less
    • #4
    • 13th Mar 18, 9:50 AM
    • #4
    • 13th Mar 18, 9:50 AM
    this is what the actual law says.....

    http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1998/1833/part/III/made

    see 22 then 24.
    • agrinnall
    • By agrinnall 13th Mar 18, 12:32 PM
    • 20,490 Posts
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    agrinnall
    • #5
    • 13th Mar 18, 12:32 PM
    • #5
    • 13th Mar 18, 12:32 PM
    this is what the actual law says.....

    http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1998/1833/part/III/made

    see 22 then 24.
    Originally posted by getmore4less
    Interesting, at a fairly quick glance I can't see anything in those sections (or in 10 or 11) that mentions the 90 hours per week, so I wonder where gov.uk has got that from?
    • getmore4less
    • By getmore4less 13th Mar 18, 1:10 PM
    • 32,419 Posts
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    getmore4less
    • #6
    • 13th Mar 18, 1:10 PM
    • #6
    • 13th Mar 18, 1:10 PM
    Interesting, at a fairly quick glance I can't see anything in those sections (or in 10 or 11) that mentions the 90 hours per week, so I wonder where gov.uk has got that from?
    Originally posted by agrinnall
    11*6 + 24 is my guess.

    but probably could/should be 5*11+24 as I suspect an 11 hr period and a 24hr period can be concurrent.

    If someone can be bothered there is probably something out there that goes into more detail on compensatory breaks and there may be case law.

    there are amendments to the act there might be something in those I have not remembered.
    • MattyLTW
    • By MattyLTW 13th Mar 18, 2:23 PM
    • 4 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    MattyLTW
    • #7
    • 13th Mar 18, 2:23 PM
    Shifts
    • #7
    • 13th Mar 18, 2:23 PM
    I'd love to have it on a weekly rotation, unfortunately they like you to carry on in the morning from where you left at night but it's not needed.
    • MattyLTW
    • By MattyLTW 13th Mar 18, 2:27 PM
    • 4 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    MattyLTW
    • #8
    • 13th Mar 18, 2:27 PM
    • #8
    • 13th Mar 18, 2:27 PM
    So I take it these shifts are legal and there's not much I can do. That's a shame. I don't understand where the 11 hour off rule comes into play then. It should be a rule for all really and not something that doesn't count if you're a shift worker. Judging by that, they'd be within their right to start me after 4/5 hours rest etc. It just seems a pointless rule but nevermind. Thank you all for your replies
    • Smodlet
    • By Smodlet 13th Mar 18, 4:48 PM
    • 3,482 Posts
    • 6,701 Thanks
    Smodlet
    • #9
    • 13th Mar 18, 4:48 PM
    • #9
    • 13th Mar 18, 4:48 PM
    Believe in better; you could look for another job if you wanted to. I do not think it is fair, I think they are taking the p!$$, tbh but it is an employers' market and I do not envisage a time when it will be anything different. The last time workers had any clout at all was pre-Thatcher.
    What is this life if, sweet wordsmith, we have no time to take the pith?
    Every stew starts with the first onion.
    I took it upon myself to investigate a trifle; it had custard, jelly, soggy sponge things...
    • Takeaway_Addict
    • By Takeaway_Addict 13th Mar 18, 6:45 PM
    • 5,837 Posts
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    Takeaway_Addict
    Way to get your card marked...
    Don't trust a forum for advice. Get proper paid advice. Any advice given should always be checked
    • chubsta
    • By chubsta 13th Mar 18, 8:02 PM
    • 149 Posts
    • 133 Thanks
    chubsta
    I work for a Government Department, twice a month when we move from day shifts to nights we finish at 3.30pm and start again later that evening at 11pm, a gap of just 7.5hours.

    I am currently on nights, today we had to stay late so instead of finishing at 7am we didn't finish until just after 2pm (a 16 hours shift with no meal break as we had started at 10pm), I am now waiting to go back to work at 10pm, a gap of 8 hours.

    So, I guess in practice there are really no rules enforced for 'gaps between shifts'...
    Mortgage-free wannabee!
    September 2010 - Mortgage amount - £75564
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    • MattyLTW
    • By MattyLTW 13th Mar 18, 8:37 PM
    • 4 Posts
    • 2 Thanks
    MattyLTW
    That's awful, this '11 hour rule' seems absolutely pointless. It seems like shift workers are forced to do whatever their companies see fit and there's nothing you can do about it.
    • Sncjw
    • By Sncjw 14th Mar 18, 7:41 AM
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    Sncjw
    How is finishing at 19:30 and then starting again at 6am 15 hours. To me that!!!8217;s 10.5 hours.
    • getmore4less
    • By getmore4less 14th Mar 18, 7:44 AM
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    getmore4less
    You have to remember the underlying principle behind the regulations is health and safety.

    Read the full regulations including the amendments where specific sectors are covered with stricter rules.

    picking one rule in isolation is a problem as even this daily break(11hr) one comes with caveats combined with the weekly break rule.

    A lot of the specific regulations are in practice framework of guidelines as workplaces agreements can override them anyway.


    I can see places where you start the day after the evening you finished.

    eg. pubs with extended opening hours where you don't want the last shift leaving jobs for the first shift,

    or workplaces that need some handover but don't operate 24hr.
    • getmore4less
    • By getmore4less 14th Mar 18, 8:15 AM
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    getmore4less
    How is finishing at 19:30 and then starting again at 6am 15 hours. To me that!!!8217;s 10.5 hours.
    Originally posted by Sncjw
    That's not what they are counting

    They are counting total time of for the calendar day of 24hr.

    If you do the full on/off list for the 2 week rotating starting with 6 am Monday

    9:00 on 19:30 off
    9:00 on 10:30 off
    9:00 on 19:30 off
    9:00 on 10:30 off
    9:00 on 67:30 off
    9:00 on 10:30 off
    9:00 on 19:30 off
    9:00 on 10:30 off
    9:00 on 19:30 off
    9:00 on 12:30 off
    4:00 on 42:00 off


    I think this fall into "pick your battles"

    one to keep an eye on if the there is any shift creep or overtime.
    • ohreally
    • By ohreally 14th Mar 18, 8:28 AM
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    ohreally
    Bear in mind collective/ workforce agreements will affect the state of play (not suggesting this has an impact with op, but something to be mindful of).
    Donít be a canít, be a can.
    • Sncjw
    • By Sncjw 14th Mar 18, 12:31 PM
    • 1,863 Posts
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    Sncjw
    Daily rest is between shifts not for the whole 24 hour period.

    This is from gov website
    Daily rest
    Workers have the right to 11 hours rest between working days, eg if they finish work at 8pm, they shouldn!!!8217;t start work again until 7am the next day.
    • getmore4less
    • By getmore4less 14th Mar 18, 12:59 PM
    • 32,419 Posts
    • 19,477 Thanks
    getmore4less
    Daily rest is between shifts not for the whole 24 hour period.

    This is from gov website
    Daily rest
    Workers have the right to 11 hours rest between working days, eg if they finish work at 8pm, they shouldn!!!8217;t start work again until 7am the next day.
    Originally posted by Sncjw
    That is not what the HR were counting with their numbers.

    They were counting rest periods for compensatory rest during the week.
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