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  • FIRST POST
    • littleinholmes
    • By littleinholmes 6th Nov 18, 1:22 PM
    • 10Posts
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    littleinholmes
    Gladstone Solicitors - 'Letter before claim received'
    • #1
    • 6th Nov 18, 1:22 PM
    Gladstone Solicitors - 'Letter before claim received' 6th Nov 18 at 1:22 PM
    Hello,

    I have been hesitant to start a new thread, but I have spent a few hours reading existing threads and haven't come across a situation similar to mine...

    Car park management agency: UKCPM
    Property management agency: Remus Management Ltd

    In July 2017 I received a parking ticket as I parked outside of the white lines of a parking bay at the car park of my home address (I am a leaseholder). I was displaying a valid permit which is non-specific to my car. The reason I was outside the white lines is that the bays are narrower than the UK recommended width of 2.4m, and sometimes cars park on the edge of the white lines which causes a knock-on effect for the rest of the cars in the row. As a result of this, I parked as close to my brother's car (who was in the neighbouring bay) as I could, so I could avoid having to exit my car by crawling out of the boot and I knew that I leave for work before him everyday - it was no issue to him and he didn't even notice I had blocked access to his drivers door. My brother, at the time, lived at the same address as me and both cars are registered to my address.

    When I received the PCN through the post they included photos of my car and also my brother's car next to mine, although nothing was left on my windscreen to notify me at the time the PCN had been issued. I appealed to UKCPM in writing and explained the situation, I didn't mention not being able to afford it etc, but I do believe the reason behind my parking was justified and it affected no one else but myself and my brother who are both leaseholders. However they rejected the appeal and I heard nothing from them, I realise now I was rather stupid to think it would all just go away!

    I have now received a 'letter before claim' from Gladstone Solicitors who have been instructed by UKCPM to recover the debt. From reading other threads I gather this is a standard letter sent by them. They haven't included any information about the PCN other than the date it was issued, vehicle registration, PCN number and the address the PCN was issued at. The charge has now been increased from 100 to 160 and I have 30 days to respond. I have not responded to this letter as I thought it best to seek advice as I am not familiar with this situation at all.

    Do they have a strong case against me seeing as I admitted I had parked outside of the bay in my appeal letter? Please can someone advise me on how best to response to this 'letter before claim'?


    Other information that may be useful:
    • UKCPM is contracted by the management agency under the instruction from the Residents' Association (who I have written to to complain about UKCPM on multiple occasions).
    • UKCPM were in operation before I purchased the leasehold to my property (three years ago).
    • I have previously had two PCNs from UKCPM. Both were for not displaying a valid permit when I had one displayed at the time - so when I appealed them they cancelled the PCNs (the first one was cancelled when the management agency requested they cancel it, despite saying they can't get involved in parking disputes and refuse to help since). I also had another bad experience with the second one - as I did not receive their original letter notifying me of the PCN, so I just received the second letter saying the PCN had been increased due to failure to respond.

    Following all this I will be complaining and campaigning within my residents association against the contract renewal with UKCPM as even before I read about them online, I had got the impression that they are awful.

    Thank you in advance for any advice given, I really do appreciate any help!
    Last edited by littleinholmes; 06-11-2018 at 1:24 PM. Reason: Spelling error
Page 1
    • IamEmanresu
    • By IamEmanresu 6th Nov 18, 1:30 PM
    • 3,769 Posts
    • 6,183 Thanks
    IamEmanresu
    • #2
    • 6th Nov 18, 1:30 PM
    • #2
    • 6th Nov 18, 1:30 PM
    Is this a Bellway Home as they use Remus. Remus are useless but if you have a go at the builders you may get something.
    If you want to win - avoid losing first. Here are a few examples
    1. Failing to Acknowledge or Defend https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5760415
    2. Template defences that say nothing https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5818671&page=5#86
    3. Forgetting about the Witness Statement
    • beamerguy
    • By beamerguy 6th Nov 18, 2:03 PM
    • 9,315 Posts
    • 12,250 Thanks
    beamerguy
    • #3
    • 6th Nov 18, 2:03 PM
    • #3
    • 6th Nov 18, 2:03 PM
    UKPCM specialise in residential parking scams

    The courts do not agree with them

    https://parking-prankster.blogspot.com/search?q=ukcpm

    If you are looking to sack this nasty company, the facts should be known by the residents and the MA

    Gladstones invented the scam. They set up the IPC which is a members club that allows scammers to access the DVLA
    UKPCM is one of the scammers.

    When you don't pay them, idiotic debt collectors get involved adding a fake 60 charge. This was passed on to Gladstones hence their claim .... you do not owe 160 ...It's a Gladstones FAKE

    Then, when you do not respond to the debt collectors, along comes Gladstones ....... THE SCAM IS A CIRCLE

    Read up about the incompetent Gladstones
    https://parking-prankster.blogspot.com/search?q=GLADSTONES

    The MA needs to know about the Gladstones scam and so do the residents as you cannot allow such a scam in operation

    Of course, as mentioned here before, maybe someone who employed these vermin is taking a share of the action

    Gladstones are trying to extort a further 60 from you and the courts don't like extortion ...... neither do they like attacks on residents.

    You must reply to the LBA .... look at it carefully to see what they have missed as they must prove their claim to you.
    They must also prove the amount of the claim.

    Let's see what they come back with regarding the 60 ???

    You see, we know this .......
    THE 60 SCAM OPERATED BY DRP ?
    https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?p=74439905#post74439905
    RBS - MNBA - CAPITAL ONE - LLOYDS

    DISGUSTING BEHAVIOUR
    • littleinholmes
    • By littleinholmes 6th Nov 18, 2:27 PM
    • 10 Posts
    • 4 Thanks
    littleinholmes
    • #4
    • 6th Nov 18, 2:27 PM
    • #4
    • 6th Nov 18, 2:27 PM
    Is this a Bellway Home as they use Remus. Remus are useless but if you have a go at the builders you may get something.
    Originally posted by IamEmanresu
    I am not sure who the original builders of the estate were as I have not come across this information before, and a 10 minute search online is not coming up with information either.

    Remus are useless in every aspect of property management, by going to the original builders would I be raising the width of the parking bays being below the UK recommended width? It is not a bit late for that since I have received the 'letter before claim', or would I be using them as part of my defence?
    • IamEmanresu
    • By IamEmanresu 6th Nov 18, 2:43 PM
    • 3,769 Posts
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    IamEmanresu
    • #5
    • 6th Nov 18, 2:43 PM
    • #5
    • 6th Nov 18, 2:43 PM
    I am not sure who the original builders of the estate were
    What does your lease say?

    These cases all turn on the wording of the lease. You will argue that you have primacy of contract (search the forum for a PoC defence). They will argue that your lease provides for Remus to introduce new "regulations" so check the wording of the lease for that clause.
    If you want to win - avoid losing first. Here are a few examples
    1. Failing to Acknowledge or Defend https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5760415
    2. Template defences that say nothing https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5818671&page=5#86
    3. Forgetting about the Witness Statement
    • The Deep
    • By The Deep 6th Nov 18, 2:50 PM
    • 10,598 Posts
    • 10,437 Thanks
    The Deep
    • #6
    • 6th Nov 18, 2:50 PM
    • #6
    • 6th Nov 18, 2:50 PM
    Do they have a strong case against me seeing as I admitted I had parked outside of the bay in my appeal letter?

    They probably have a weak case, (or perhaps a very weak case), it depends on the wording of your lease wrt the display of permits. It does not matter that you were the driver, read this

    http://parking-prankster.blogspot.com/2016/11/residential-parking.html.

    Does your lease contain the words "peaceful enjoyment"? Is the parking space written into your lease? If so, read this

    http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?377246-UKPC-liable-for-trespass-**SUCCESS**

    also research "Primacy of Contract" and read this.

    This is an entirely unregulated industry which is scamming the public with inflated claims for minor breaches of alleged contracts for alleged parking offences, aided and abetted by a handful of low-rent solicitors.

    Parking Eye, CPM, Smart, and others have already been named and shamed in the House of Commons as have Gladstones Solicitors, and BW Legal, (these two law firms take hundreds of these cases to court each week, hospital car parks and residential complex tickets have been especially mentioned. They lose most of them, and have been reported to the regulatory authority by an M.P. for unprofessional conduct

    The problem has become so widespread that MPs have agreed to enact a Bill to regulate these scammers. It has even been suggested that some of these companies have links with organised ccrime.

    Watch the video of the Second Reading and committee stage in the House of Commons recently. MPs have a very low opinion of this industry.

    http://parliamentlive.tv/event/index/2f0384f2-eba5-4fff-ab07-cf24b6a22918?in=12:49:41

    https://hansard.parliament.uk/commons/2018-07-19/debates/2b90805c-bff8-4707-8bdc-b0bfae5a7ad5/Parking(CodeOfPractice)Bill(FirstSitting)

    and complain in the most robust terms to your MP. With a fair wind they will be out of business by early in the New Year.
    Last edited by The Deep; 06-11-2018 at 2:57 PM.
    You never know how far you can go until you go too far.
    • littleinholmes
    • By littleinholmes 6th Nov 18, 8:21 PM
    • 10 Posts
    • 4 Thanks
    littleinholmes
    • #7
    • 6th Nov 18, 8:21 PM
    • #7
    • 6th Nov 18, 8:21 PM
    it depends on the wording of your lease wrt the display of permits.
    Originally posted by The Deep
    I have looked back through the original lease - and the only wording I can find regarding parking is as follows:

    "The lessor may at any time or times during the term hereby granted in the interests of good estate management or for permitting and regulating the parking of motor and other vehicles upon part or parts of the Grounds make and impose such regulations regarding the flats or the Buildings or the Grounds as it may in its absolute discretion think fit (but so that any such regulations shall not conflict with the terms of this Lease) and the Lessor shall have the power for all purposes mentioned in this sub-clause in its absolute discretion to waive revoke amend or add to the Regulations set out in the Fifth Schedule hereto or any additions thereto or any regulations substituted therefor made under the provisions of this sub-clause and such substituted or altered Regulations shall be binding upon the Tenant as soon as the Lessor shall have served notice of such new Regulations upon the Tenant not-withstanding that the Lessor may not have served notice to this effect upon the tenant of any other flat"

    The Fifth Schedule (Regulations to be observed by the Tenant) does not mention anything about parking, however the Fourth Schedule (Covenants by the Tenant with the Lessor) mentions the following:

    "The tenant will not park leave or stand any motor or other vehicles on any part of the Grounds save in such places and at such times as may be permitted by such regulations as may be made under Clause 12 (6) of the lease" - the quote above.

    Does your lease contain the words "peaceful enjoyment"?
    Originally posted by The Deep
    Can't see this phrase anywhere

    Is the parking space written into your lease?
    Originally posted by The Deep
    Worryingly I can't see that they are - although they are not allocated spaces so I am not sure if this makes a difference?
    • littleinholmes
    • By littleinholmes 6th Nov 18, 8:28 PM
    • 10 Posts
    • 4 Thanks
    littleinholmes
    • #8
    • 6th Nov 18, 8:28 PM
    • #8
    • 6th Nov 18, 8:28 PM
    What does your lease say?

    These cases all turn on the wording of the lease. You will argue that you have primacy of contract (search the forum for a PoC defence). They will argue that your lease provides for Remus to introduce new "regulations" so check the wording of the lease for that clause.
    Originally posted by IamEmanresu
    The lease states "Epic Industrial Properties Ltd" on the lease. Formerly known as Manlan Property Company Ltd - no mention of Bellway Home.

    I have quoted the lease in my response to The Deep above - from my understanding the Lease states that the Regulations can be added to as long as notice is served to the Tenants (which I assume happened prior to me purchasing the lease).

    I am not feeling particularly positive about my case against Gladstone Solicitors after reading my lease... although I will be campaigning for their removal based on online research of their poor reputation.
    • Quentin
    • By Quentin 6th Nov 18, 8:32 PM
    • 37,944 Posts
    • 22,056 Thanks
    Quentin
    • #9
    • 6th Nov 18, 8:32 PM
    • #9
    • 6th Nov 18, 8:32 PM
    . complain in the most robust terms to your MP. With a fair wind they will be out of business by early in the New Year.
    Originally posted by The Deep
    This is wildly optimistic


    OP, if this does progress to a claim, then continue to defend it.


    Regardless of any complaint you make to your MP it is highly unlikely the Govt will put then out of business in the next few months!
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 6th Nov 18, 10:24 PM
    • 63,887 Posts
    • 76,545 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    I have quoted the lease in my response to The Deep above - from my understanding the Lease states that the Regulations can be added to as long as notice is served to the Tenants (which I assume happened prior to me purchasing the lease).
    Never assume! we don't think they will have given adequate notice to the resident at the time and they didn't give adequate notice to you!

    Write to the MA asking for a copy of the Notice they served (or notices if more than one) to the residents at the time that they imposed the current unsuitable parking regime, as you cannot believe that this has been properly agreed as a variation of the leases, with a consensus of 75% or more leaseholders voting in favour of this horrendous and onerous enforcement, as is required under the Landlord & Tenant Act.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT UNLESS IN SCOTLAND OR NI
    TWO Clicks needed Look up, top of the page:
    Main site>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
    • IamEmanresu
    • By IamEmanresu 7th Nov 18, 4:58 AM
    • 3,769 Posts
    • 6,183 Thanks
    IamEmanresu
    from my understanding the Lease states that the Regulations can be added to as long as notice is served to the Tenants (which I assume happened prior to me purchasing the lease).
    Were the parking company there before you moved in or afterwards?

    The issue will also be whether the matter was minor (de minimis) or major (obstruction). The pics will tell the story.
    If you want to win - avoid losing first. Here are a few examples
    1. Failing to Acknowledge or Defend https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5760415
    2. Template defences that say nothing https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5818671&page=5#86
    3. Forgetting about the Witness Statement
    • littleinholmes
    • By littleinholmes 7th Nov 18, 11:01 AM
    • 10 Posts
    • 4 Thanks
    littleinholmes
    Were the parking company there before you moved in or afterwards?

    The issue will also be whether the matter was minor (de minimis) or major (obstruction). The pics will tell the story.
    Originally posted by IamEmanresu
    UKCPM were in operation before I moved in to my property.

    I was not obstructing anyone other than my brother's drivers door. We have two permits and both of us together were occupying two spaces. Nobody else was affected.

    Do you think a statement from my brother would be useful to submit as evidence?
    • littleinholmes
    • By littleinholmes 7th Nov 18, 11:02 AM
    • 10 Posts
    • 4 Thanks
    littleinholmes
    Never assume! we don't think they will have given adequate notice to the resident at the time and they didn't give adequate notice to you!

    Write to the MA asking for a copy of the Notice they served (or notices if more than one) to the residents at the time that they imposed the current unsuitable parking regime, as you cannot believe that this has been properly agreed as a variation of the leases, with a consensus of 75% or more leaseholders voting in favour of this horrendous and onerous enforcement, as is required under the Landlord & Tenant Act.
    Originally posted by Coupon-mad
    Ok thank you - I will write to the MA today and also copy in my Residents Association so they cannot play me off against each other (as they have done in the past).
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 8th Nov 18, 12:33 AM
    • 63,887 Posts
    • 76,545 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Do you think a statement from my brother would be useful to submit as evidence?
    Yes it can't hurt, but a witness statement is best if the author can also turn up at the hearing in support, and so the extra WS is not dismissed as hearsay.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT UNLESS IN SCOTLAND OR NI
    TWO Clicks needed Look up, top of the page:
    Main site>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
    • IamEmanresu
    • By IamEmanresu 8th Nov 18, 6:33 AM
    • 3,769 Posts
    • 6,183 Thanks
    IamEmanresu
    UKCPM were in operation before I moved in to my property.
    You'll have to watch for that one as it could be construed that you were aware of the restrictions / operations that were implied when you started to live there. They've won on this point before.

    Looks like it will come down to the pics and whether the matter was trifling. A WS from your brother would be a big help especially if you can portray their actions on site as predatory rather than business-like.

    Other WS along the same lines from other residents would help too.
    If you want to win - avoid losing first. Here are a few examples
    1. Failing to Acknowledge or Defend https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5760415
    2. Template defences that say nothing https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5818671&page=5#86
    3. Forgetting about the Witness Statement
    • The Deep
    • By The Deep 8th Nov 18, 9:15 AM
    • 10,598 Posts
    • 10,437 Thanks
    The Deep
    I am not feeling particularly positive about my case against Gladstone Solicitors

    Magic circle they are not. Read some of these, it may make you feel better.

    https://www.bing.com/search?q=ou%27ve+been+gladstoned&form=EDNTHT&mkt=e n-gb&httpsmsn=1&refig=65dcc3a252404462ca420dde912510 54&PC=ACTS&sp=-1&pq=ou%27ve+been+gl&sc=0-13&qs=n&sk=&cvid=65dcc3a252404462ca420dde91251054
    You never know how far you can go until you go too far.
    • littleinholmes
    • By littleinholmes 8th Nov 18, 10:21 PM
    • 10 Posts
    • 4 Thanks
    littleinholmes
    Never assume! we don't think they will have given adequate notice to the resident at the time and they didn't give adequate notice to you!

    Write to the MA asking for a copy of the Notice they served (or notices if more than one) to the residents at the time that they imposed the current unsuitable parking regime, as you cannot believe that this has been properly agreed as a variation of the leases, with a consensus of 75% or more leaseholders voting in favour of this horrendous and onerous enforcement, as is required under the Landlord & Tenant Act.
    Originally posted by Coupon-mad
    So I have now had a response from the MA, they have stated that there has been estate-wide parking enforcement for the last thirteen years as per the extract from the lease (that I have quoted above).

    They also state:

    "As the Residents Association is informal, it was the Freeholders decision to go ahead with the parking enforcement for the benefit of the Estate (many residents from surrounding properties were using the Estate for parking). Each individual property has been issued with 2 permits which allow Estate residents to park freely in any of the allocated bays thus there should be no issues for residents."

    I am really not happy with this response, they haven't said whether they actually gave notice to the residents nor provided any evidence to say they did at the time! And to say there "should" be no issues for residents is a joke... between myself and my brother we have had five PCNs in less than three years!
    • nosferatu1001
    • By nosferatu1001 9th Nov 18, 8:28 AM
    • 3,921 Posts
    • 4,720 Thanks
    nosferatu1001
    So you go back and force that point

    Where was the required notice showing 75% agreement?
    HOw does it square with the right to peaceful enjoyment?
    How is it to the benefit of the leaseholder, how is it reasonable?
    • The Slithy Tove
    • By The Slithy Tove 9th Nov 18, 10:13 AM
    • 3,444 Posts
    • 5,050 Thanks
    The Slithy Tove
    How is it to the benefit of the leaseholder, how is it reasonable?
    Originally posted by nosferatu1001
    In particular, how can the remedy for a breach of any regulations be to pay a third party stranger to that lease a sum of money?
    • littleinholmes
    • By littleinholmes 9th Nov 18, 10:48 AM
    • 10 Posts
    • 4 Thanks
    littleinholmes
    So you go back and force that point

    Where was the required notice showing 75% agreement?
    HOw does it square with the right to peaceful enjoyment?
    How is it to the benefit of the leaseholder, how is it reasonable?
    Originally posted by nosferatu1001
    Thank you - I have emailed them back with your suggestions and also asked the following questions:

    *As the contract holder, has the MA collected any data as to the satisfaction of the residents in relation to the parking enforcement?
    *Can you confirm your definition of "issues"? Myself and my brother have received five PCNs within three years, does the MA consider these as "issues"?
    *Does UKCPM provide the MA with any data as to their performance, or to what proportion of the PCNs are issued to residents displaying valid permits?
    * Does UKCPM provide the MA with any data at all or are they ungoverned?

    I have also asked them to identify the reason why they have excluded the Residents Association from their response to me... perhaps because they have labelled the RA as "informal" which may not go down too well!
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