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  • FIRST POST
    • zigger
    • By zigger 5th Nov 18, 1:06 PM
    • 7Posts
    • 1Thanks
    zigger
    Received LBCCC after believing charge had been cancelled
    • #1
    • 5th Nov 18, 1:06 PM
    Received LBCCC after believing charge had been cancelled 5th Nov 18 at 1:06 PM
    Good afternoon,


    Apologies for raising this one. I know there's a ton of info and guidance in the Newbies section. I just need a pointer in the right direction.
    In summary, my wife attended a meeting at a hotel which included complimentary parking, paid for by the organisers. She was told on arrival that a member of the hotel staff would come along and collect car registrations. For whatever reason, my wife was missed out (and I believe someone else too) and, unfortunately, she never gave it a thought.
    Subsequently, she received a PCN (the other person paid the 60 'without predjudice' offer) but we feel that the hotel was at fault and contacted the hotel to complain. The hotel Events Manager emailed us to say they had got the charge cancelled. Fast forward to another 'without predjudice' offer made to us and, after contacting the hotel again, the hotel stated that the charge had definitely been cancelled and it takes time for these things to happen.
    So now, a month later, we have received an LBCCC which seems to show that either the charge has not been cancelled, the car park management company is ignoring the hotel or it's some kind of automated letter and the cancellation has'nt caught up with them yet.
    I have emailed the hotel again but I am also mindful of the fact that I will need to respond to the LBCCC within 14 days.
    Any advice would be much appreciated. Thank you .
Page 1
    • KeithP
    • By KeithP 5th Nov 18, 1:09 PM
    • 10,600 Posts
    • 10,984 Thanks
    KeithP
    • #2
    • 5th Nov 18, 1:09 PM
    • #2
    • 5th Nov 18, 1:09 PM
    You have 30 days to respond to a compliant Letter of Claim.

    Is it really a Letter of Claim?

    Who is the parking company?
    .
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 5th Nov 18, 1:18 PM
    • 63,839 Posts
    • 76,488 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    • #3
    • 5th Nov 18, 1:18 PM
    • #3
    • 5th Nov 18, 1:18 PM
    The hotel Events Manager emailed us to say they had got the charge cancelled. Fast forward to another 'without predjudice' offer made to us and, after contacting the hotel again, the hotel stated that the charge had definitely been cancelled and it takes time for these things to happen.
    Send that email chain to the parking firm - which firm is it?

    Tell them you expect them to cancel immediately, as this was purely the Hotel's fault for failing to 'collect' VRNs from all parties that day, and they have accepted fault and have cancelled the PCN.

    Finish by saying if they proceed to a claim, you will counter-claim for 'pure distress' caused by their data processing abuse under the GDPR and DPA and for distress for unwarranted harassment under the Protection from Harassment Act, given the similarity to Ferguson v British Gas, where a consumer was unfairly targeted and pursued with aggressive demands for monies that were not owed.

    Tell them that sum will be a counter-claim for 500.

    But that this email constitutes a reply to the LBCCC and a drop-hands offer, and if they confirm within 14 days that the PCN is cancelled, you will not pursue your claim.

    If the letter is from a solicitor, finish by saying that you now require them to revert to their client for instructions to cancel the PCN, and to place any planned litigation on hold.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT UNLESS IN SCOTLAND OR NI
    TWO Clicks needed Look up, top of the page:
    Main site>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
    • The Deep
    • By The Deep 5th Nov 18, 1:19 PM
    • 10,544 Posts
    • 10,376 Thanks
    The Deep
    • #4
    • 5th Nov 18, 1:19 PM
    • #4
    • 5th Nov 18, 1:19 PM
    Write some bad stuff on the hotel's TripAdviser page and complain to your MP.

    This is an entirely unregulated industry which is scamming the public with inflated claims for minor breaches of alleged contracts for alleged parking offences, aided and abetted by a handful of low-rent solicitors.

    Parking Eye, CPM, Smart, and others have already been named and shamed in the House of Commons as have Gladstones Solicitors, and BW Legal, (these two law firms take hundreds of these cases to court each week, hospital car parks and residential complex tickets have been especially mentioned. They lose most of them, and have been reported to the regulatory authority by an M.P. for unprofessional conduct

    The problem has become so widespread that MPs have agreed to enact a Bill to regulate these scammers. It has even been suggested that some of these companies have links with organised ccrime.

    Watch the video of the Second Reading and committee stage in the House of Commons recently. MPs have a very low opinion of this industry.

    http://parliamentlive.tv/event/index/2f0384f2-eba5-4fff-ab07-cf24b6a22918?in=12:49:41

    https://hansard.parliament.uk/commons/2018-07-19/debates/2b90805c-bff8-4707-8bdc-b0bfae5a7ad5/Parking(CodeOfPractice)Bill(FirstSitting)

    and complain in the most robust terms to your MP. With a fair wind they will be out of business by early in the New Year.
    You never know how far you can go until you go too far.
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 5th Nov 18, 1:20 PM
    • 63,839 Posts
    • 76,488 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    • #5
    • 5th Nov 18, 1:20 PM
    • #5
    • 5th Nov 18, 1:20 PM
    I can't see parking firms out of business within 6 months, sadly, TD.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT UNLESS IN SCOTLAND OR NI
    TWO Clicks needed Look up, top of the page:
    Main site>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 5th Nov 18, 2:04 PM
    • 20,230 Posts
    • 31,903 Thanks
    Umkomaas
    • #6
    • 5th Nov 18, 2:04 PM
    • #6
    • 5th Nov 18, 2:04 PM
    I can't see parking firms out of business within 6 months, sadly, TD.
    Originally posted by Coupon-mad
    TD's revised his estimate (getting a telling off from Quentin) by a couple of months. It was 'by Christmas'.

    Mind, he's cleverly leaving out any 'year' from his forecast, so on that basis, he could be right!
    Please note, we are not a legal, residential or credit advice forum, rather one that helps motorists fight private parking charges, primarily at the 'front-end' of the process.
    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • zigger
    • By zigger 5th Nov 18, 2:11 PM
    • 7 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    zigger
    • #7
    • 5th Nov 18, 2:11 PM
    • #7
    • 5th Nov 18, 2:11 PM
    Thank you for your replies.


    The letter looks genuine. The heading is 'Letter Before County Court Claim' and the company is ParkingEye.


    The hotel Events Manager is not back until tomorrow and I will seek confirmation of the charge cancellation from her then. Unfortunately, my email provider (BT Yahoo) decided, at some point, to get rid of some of my emails. The email chain relevant to this situation being one of them. Hopefully, the hotel will still have it but, failing that, I need them to re-confirm the charge cancellation.


    I will update with any progress I make and I thank you for your advice.
    • fisherjim
    • By fisherjim 5th Nov 18, 2:24 PM
    • 3,281 Posts
    • 5,055 Thanks
    fisherjim
    • #8
    • 5th Nov 18, 2:24 PM
    • #8
    • 5th Nov 18, 2:24 PM
    Ahh yes Parking Eye still part of C(r)apita, universally condemned to day on Radio and TV as useless for their mismanagement of our armed forces recruitment over the last six years.
    One commentator remarked that they are only interested in making money, and have failed to meet any targets!


    That rings a bell!
    • Half_way
    • By Half_way 5th Nov 18, 2:36 PM
    • 4,343 Posts
    • 6,150 Thanks
    Half_way
    • #9
    • 5th Nov 18, 2:36 PM
    • #9
    • 5th Nov 18, 2:36 PM
    before you send anything off post it here.
    the hotel may say they can't do anything as legal proceedings have started, if they do they are wrong.
    You need to say the right things to the hotel.
    From the Plain Language Commission:

    "The BPA has surely become one of the most socially dangerous organisations in the UK"
    • Quentin
    • By Quentin 5th Nov 18, 4:00 PM
    • 37,924 Posts
    • 22,028 Thanks
    Quentin
    I can't see parking firms out of business within 6 months, sadly, TD.
    Originally posted by Coupon-mad
    The worry over this template post that TD adds to Newbies threads is that it comes from someone with on the face of it the qualifications we say to look out for (lots of posts and long time poster)


    Thus newbies hoping for a quick fix/magic bullet by coming here may seize on it as an excuse allowing them to carry on ignoring rather than face the "horrors" of getting to grips with this by studying the FAQ
    • IamEmanresu
    • By IamEmanresu 5th Nov 18, 4:11 PM
    • 3,769 Posts
    • 6,179 Thanks
    IamEmanresu
    Thus newbies hoping for a quick fix/magic bullet by coming here may seize on it as an excuse allowing them to carry on ignoring rather than face the "horrors" of getting to grips with this by studying the FAQ
    You make an important point, Q. It would be better when referring someone to the Newbies thread to say "see post # and para ##". Too often it is simply a reference to the thread without being specific about which part of the thread.

    In many cases, it is quicker to answer the question rather than saying "go to the Newbies thread". A plea to all (including myself) to be a bit more specific about the advice. Hopefully we can then reduce the 2000 or so "no shows" we have each year.
    If you want to win - avoid losing first. Here are a few examples
    1. Failing to Acknowledge or Defend https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5760415
    2. Template defences that say nothing https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5818671&page=5#86
    3. Forgetting about the Witness Statement
    • The Deep
    • By The Deep 5th Nov 18, 4:43 PM
    • 10,544 Posts
    • 10,376 Thanks
    The Deep
    I am open to suggestions as to how to improve my post.

    As for the timeliness of the legislation, I do not see how the present situation can continue much longer.
    You never know how far you can go until you go too far.
    • Le_Kirk
    • By Le_Kirk 5th Nov 18, 4:46 PM
    • 3,346 Posts
    • 2,298 Thanks
    Le_Kirk
    It would be better when referring someone to the Newbies thread to say "see post # and para ##". Too often it is simply a reference to the thread without being specific about which part of the thread.
    Originally posted by IamEmanresu
    Agreed and I do try to do this but are we not in danger of spoon-feeding posters, which is something I thought was to be avoided so that posters get into the habit of researching. Sometimes when they are new they need that little bit of hand-holding, then later could be introduced to the self-help approach.
    • Quentin
    • By Quentin 5th Nov 18, 5:20 PM
    • 37,924 Posts
    • 22,028 Thanks
    Quentin
    I am open to suggestions as to how to improve my post.

    As for the timeliness of the legislation, I do not see how the present situation can continue much longer.
    Originally posted by The Deep


    What encourages you to advise that the Ppcs will be out of business by Xmas/early in 2019 (which is here in less than 2 months)?
    • The Deep
    • By The Deep 6th Nov 18, 12:06 PM
    • 10,544 Posts
    • 10,376 Thanks
    The Deep
    I have now revised my opinion, legislation before Christmas is now most unlikely. Early in the New Year can reasonably be interpreted as April 2019. I am a glass half full type if chap,
    You never know how far you can go until you go too far.
    • twhitehousescat
    • By twhitehousescat 6th Nov 18, 12:39 PM
    • 2,142 Posts
    • 2,589 Thanks
    twhitehousescat
    the protection of freedom act was first written on parchment with a quill, thats how long it took to be put in to enforcement

    I think at this stage , there are about another 4 or 5 stages to go before legislation , then there will be a 6 mth period for things to happen

    I would say closer to 2021 than to early 2019
    Time pretending I was asleep whilst under his desk , has given me insight to this sordid world
    • onlyfoolsandparking
    • By onlyfoolsandparking 6th Nov 18, 9:32 PM
    • 414 Posts
    • 536 Thanks
    onlyfoolsandparking
    Going back to the OP,s original question do the regulars on here think a cancellation letter/email direct from the scammer is an absolute must, the reason I ask this is as a few of you will know I have been fighting the abhorrent Excel since February this year.


    I made my 'Newbie' mistakes in the beginning entering into an aggravating letter ping pong battle with the usual ignorant replies one would expect from a seasoned scammer BUT!!!! and its a good but, I managed to secure a LOC and I think?? (I'm definitely not nave enough to think I won the War but at least I won my battle) I achieved it with a well timed letter to the scammer and an email to the Landowner.


    I did email Landowner early days as suggested in newbies thread with a polite but firm request asking all the usual and got a reply stating Yes they operate the car park on our behalf, end of!!! (How very dare they) and after going through all my beginner mistakes I got thinking I'm not accepting Landowners fob off and devised (what I think??) a good quality email resulting in the cancellation, happy days but do I need a cancellation letter/email from scammer, I have email confirmation from Landowner which I have printed off and filed should the scumbags try anything in next 5+ years, any thoughts?


    By the way I would like to (on my own thread) show the email and letter I sent to scammer/Landowner redacted of course to see if it might be helpful to other current/future victims but not sure if it could be identified and end up with me receiving LBC,its quite specific and 2+2 could be done easily, I've had a result with my PCN and I really don't want to stir up a hornets nest, we all know how sadistic the scammers and their low-life legal associates are.


    Again, any thoughts?
    Last edited by onlyfoolsandparking; 06-11-2018 at 9:43 PM.
    The real meaning of life is the pursuit of happiness and avoidance of pain
    • Quentin
    • By Quentin 7th Nov 18, 11:32 AM
    • 37,924 Posts
    • 22,028 Thanks
    Quentin
    I have now revised my opinion, legislation before Christmas is now most unlikely. Early in the New Year can reasonably be interpreted as April 2019. I am a glass half full type if chap,
    Originally posted by The Deep
    Just no possibility of this time table, and hopelessly optimistic to tell newbies their PPC will be put out of business by APRIL!


    Your assertion to newbies is so dangerous should they decide to take it at face value as sound advice and take it they can ignore a PCN!
    • beamerguy
    • By beamerguy 7th Nov 18, 11:48 AM
    • 9,264 Posts
    • 12,188 Thanks
    beamerguy
    This all crystal ball stuff ?

    When I was a kid I had a tortoise called Speedy Gonzales and looking back, he moved much faster than any government I have ever seen

    No harm in emailing Sir Greg Knight asking ... when ... as the scam is getting bigger
    RBS - MNBA - CAPITAL ONE - LLOYDS

    DISGUSTING BEHAVIOUR
    • The Deep
    • By The Deep 7th Nov 18, 11:59 AM
    • 10,544 Posts
    • 10,376 Thanks
    The Deep
    Your assertion to newbies is so dangerous should they decide to take it at face value as sound advice and take it they can ignore a PCN!

    It is not an assertion, it is merely an opinion.

    I have however revised it, as I tend to think that Brexit may scupper this Bill and this Government. If JC becomes PM I suspect that the car owning classes may well be taxed into extinction.
    Last edited by The Deep; 07-11-2018 at 12:02 PM.
    You never know how far you can go until you go too far.
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