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  • FIRST POST
    • one_cruzer
    • By one_cruzer 29th Oct 18, 9:08 AM
    • 32Posts
    • 3Thanks
    one_cruzer
    URGENT Small Claims Court - Gladstone Solictors acting for EPS (Euro Parking Services Ltd)
    • #1
    • 29th Oct 18, 9:08 AM
    URGENT Small Claims Court - Gladstone Solictors acting for EPS (Euro Parking Services Ltd) 29th Oct 18 at 9:08 AM
    Case Summary - Parking without a permit - Gladstone are acting on behalf of EPS and have pursued this case onto the small claims track county court. The hearing is in about 10 days.

    Received witness statement from Euro Parking Services Ltd from Gladstone Solicitors. I filed in a defence statement to the claim form a while back and Gladstone have now sent a witness statement with evidence instead of replying back to my defence statement. The witness statement is about 20 pages long and I don't know where to start. They have also mentioned that they are under the assumption that there client is not attending however on occasions the client may wish to attend.


    Any help to win this case will be much appreciated
Page 3
    • one_cruzer
    • By one_cruzer 8th Nov 18, 2:19 PM
    • 32 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    one_cruzer
    Gladstones have received instructions from the claimant Euro Parking Services to discontinue the case. They have confirmed this in writing and have sent a letter in the post as well. Do I still have to go to the hearing that is scheduled tomorrow?


    I haven't filed my costs as of yet, should I post this to the court or hand them in and send a copy to GS/EPS?
    • KeithP
    • By KeithP 8th Nov 18, 2:26 PM
    • 10,662 Posts
    • 11,047 Thanks
    KeithP
    Do I still have to go to the hearing that is scheduled tomorrow?
    Originally posted by one_cruzer
    Ring the court and ask them.
    .
    • one_cruzer
    • By one_cruzer 8th Nov 18, 3:06 PM
    • 32 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    one_cruzer
    Ring the court and ask them.
    Originally posted by KeithP

    I've just spoken to the court and they've said that they haven't received any paperwork from the claimant. At present the hearing is still going ahead. Do I take my draft schedule of costs with me on the day tomorrow to show the Judge?
    • KeithP
    • By KeithP 8th Nov 18, 3:10 PM
    • 10,662 Posts
    • 11,047 Thanks
    KeithP
    I've just spoken to the court and they've said that they haven't received any paperwork from the claimant. At present the hearing is still going ahead. Do I take my draft schedule of costs with me on the day tomorrow to show the Judge?
    Originally posted by one_cruzer
    You must turn up.

    Yes of course you take your costs schedule with you - and everything else you were planning to take.
    If the hearing takes place, you need to be prepared for it.

    It is even more important that you ask for costs if they fail to turn up.
    .
    • one_cruzer
    • By one_cruzer 8th Nov 18, 3:29 PM
    • 32 Posts
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    one_cruzer
    Do I need a skeleton argument? I'm looking to prepare one
    • KeithP
    • By KeithP 8th Nov 18, 3:32 PM
    • 10,662 Posts
    • 11,047 Thanks
    KeithP
    Do I need a skeleton argument? I'm looking to prepare one
    Originally posted by one_cruzer
    Entirely up to you - it's optional.

    Surely you read that in the NEWBIES thread?
    .
    • IamEmanresu
    • By IamEmanresu 8th Nov 18, 3:58 PM
    • 3,769 Posts
    • 6,183 Thanks
    IamEmanresu
    Here is a particularly good one to give you a start

    https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5657438&page=8#151
    If you want to win - avoid losing first. Here are a few examples
    1. Failing to Acknowledge or Defend https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5760415
    2. Template defences that say nothing https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5818671&page=5#86
    3. Forgetting about the Witness Statement
    • KeithP
    • By KeithP 8th Nov 18, 4:40 PM
    • 10,662 Posts
    • 11,047 Thanks
    KeithP
    It is even more important that you ask for costs if they fail to turn up.
    Originally posted by KeithP
    And whether they turn up or not, if the hearing goes ahead make sure you show the judge the letters/emails you have received stating that the case is discontinued.

    In my opinion, that is beyond 'unreasonable behaviour' and borders on contempt of court.

    Make sure your costs schedule takes that into account.
    Maybe look again at Sassii's costs schedule:
    www.keepandshare.com/doc16/21755/strick-out-cost-request-letter-docx-28k?da=y
    Last edited by KeithP; 08-11-2018 at 4:44 PM.
    .
    • beamerguy
    • By beamerguy 8th Nov 18, 5:27 PM
    • 9,301 Posts
    • 12,229 Thanks
    beamerguy
    one_cruzer

    I loved the last few posts and those of KeithP.

    Whatever happens Gladstones are on a LOSE-LOSE

    Would love to see the judge's face when they either do not turn up or if they do, your confirmation of cancellation

    'unreasonable behaviour' and borders on contempt of court.'

    In your mind it's called complete incompetence

    Enjoy yourself in court and don't forget your costs
    RBS - MNBA - CAPITAL ONE - LLOYDS

    DISGUSTING BEHAVIOUR
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 8th Nov 18, 5:35 PM
    • 63,875 Posts
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    Coupon-mad
    Get yourself in there with a 4 figure costs schedule like sassii's, and a list blow by blow, of every failure and unreasonable conduct the claimant has been guilty of, from the predatory meritless PCN, to harassment with debt letters, to failure to comply with the Practice Direction and/or the PAP, to the woefully inadequte details on the Particulars, the (late? was it?) WS trying to ambush you with information not disclosed before, and written by someone who was NOT a witness at all - then discontinuing the day before the hearing and not telling the court, such that you had no choice but to turn up and miss a day's work and incur travel /parking costs.

    If you get to court and the clerk says it is already discontinued that morning:

    - stay there! Ask to have ten minutes with the Judge to consider a costs order on the indemnity basis, and go in and show proof of your costs and the list of unreasonable behaviour.

    It's a high bar to meet (to get costs on the indemnity basis, like sassii did) so you have to lay it on thick and criticise everything the PPC has done to you.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT UNLESS IN SCOTLAND OR NI
    TWO Clicks needed Look up, top of the page:
    Main site>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
    • one_cruzer
    • By one_cruzer 9th Nov 18, 10:45 AM
    • 32 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    one_cruzer
    Went to the hearing today, Gladstones did not turn up and nor did Euro Parking Services. The judge carried on with the claim and I said I have a letter of discontinuance. I showed this to him and he said I should have showed him before at the start. He seemed to be in favour of the claimant and carried out to proceed the case as if the claimant was there until I mentioned the letter of discontinuance. I showed him my costs in details in which he replied this is a small claims court you can't claim costs and I showed the unreasonable behaviour and the judge rejected it and rejected my costs. The judge also said that I didn't need to attend the hearing as I had a letter of discontinuance from the claimant. I mentioned the courts said that I should still go if it hasn't been filed. Is it any worth pursuing this further and maybe appeal the judge's decision for costs?
    • one_cruzer
    • By one_cruzer 10th Nov 18, 12:36 PM
    • 32 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    one_cruzer
    Bump - can anyone help on this?
    • Umkomaas
    • By Umkomaas 10th Nov 18, 2:01 PM
    • 20,238 Posts
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    Umkomaas
    Personally, I'd chalk it down to experience. Not very satisfying for you, but unless you can prove very unreasonable behaviour (it's a high bar) there would be no cost award other than 95 loss of earnings/leave for half a day, mileage at .45p and a parking fee - but the discontinuance letter seems to have also fouled that pitch too for you.

    See if anyone else comments.
    Please note, we are not a legal, residential or credit advice forum, rather one that helps motorists fight private parking charges, primarily at the 'front-end' of the process.
    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.
    • Quentin
    • By Quentin 10th Nov 18, 3:23 PM
    • 37,942 Posts
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    Quentin
    I agree with Umkomaas


    Not to mention not showing the discontinuance letter to the Judge at the outset was a mistake and he obviously proceeded with a normal hearing in their absence till you decided to tell him!
    • Castle
    • By Castle 10th Nov 18, 3:27 PM
    • 2,008 Posts
    • 2,708 Thanks
    Castle
    Given Bargepole's assessment of the OP's chances, (in post 3), and the late submission of the WS and evidence, (on both sides), the result was better than expected. Time to move on I'd suggest.
    • The Deep
    • By The Deep 10th Nov 18, 3:57 PM
    • 10,583 Posts
    • 10,419 Thanks
    The Deep
    The judge also said that I didn't need to attend the hearing as I had a letter of discontinuance from the claimant. I mentioned the courts said that I should still go if it hasn't been filed.

    I disagree with the others.

    If I was this OP I would be making a huge fuss. I would make a complaint that in failing to award unreasonable behaviour costs the judge erred in law, and he certainly seemed not to be impartial. Someone suggested that the PPCs actions bordered on contempt, I agree.

    Of course defendants make mistakes, they are usually unrepresented by a legal professional, may well be unfamiliar with the Rules and perhaps even awed by their surroundings.

    I think that judge served the defendant very poorly indeed.
    Last edited by The Deep; 10-11-2018 at 4:02 PM.
    You never know how far you can go until you go too far.
    • beamerguy
    • By beamerguy 10th Nov 18, 4:56 PM
    • 9,301 Posts
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    beamerguy
    The main thing is he won and probably Gladstones the incompetent wasted time in the first place.

    There still appears to be grumpy old judges around who are not in touch with the real world and should be put out to grass
    RBS - MNBA - CAPITAL ONE - LLOYDS

    DISGUSTING BEHAVIOUR
    • one_cruzer
    • By one_cruzer 17th Nov 18, 3:53 PM
    • 32 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    one_cruzer
    P
    The judge also said that I didn't need to attend the hearing as I had a letter of discontinuance from the claimant. I mentioned the courts said that I should still go if it hasn't been filed.

    I disagree with the others.

    If I was this OP I would be making a huge fuss. I would make a complaint that in failing to award unreasonable behaviour costs the judge erred in law, and he certainly seemed not to be impartial. Someone suggested that the PPCs actions bordered on contempt, I agree.

    Of course defendants make mistakes, they are usually unrepresented by a legal professional, may well be unfamiliar with the Rules and perhaps even awed by their surroundings.

    I think that judge served the defendant very poorly indeed.
    Originally posted by The Deep

    I totally agree on the comment you have made here. What's the best of course of action? I don't think any justice has been served on the PPC and they have got away with it lightly
    • onlyfoolsandparking
    • By onlyfoolsandparking 17th Nov 18, 4:24 PM
    • 425 Posts
    • 544 Thanks
    onlyfoolsandparking
    The judge also said that I didn't need to attend the hearing as I had a letter of discontinuance from the claimant. I mentioned the courts said that I should still go if it hasn't been filed.

    I disagree with the others.

    If I was this OP I would be making a huge fuss. I would make a complaint that in failing to award unreasonable behaviour costs the judge erred in law, and he certainly seemed not to be impartial. Someone suggested that the PPCs actions bordered on contempt, I agree.

    Of course defendants make mistakes, they are usually unrepresented by a legal professional, may well be unfamiliar with the Rules and perhaps even awed by their surroundings.

    I think that judge served the defendant very poorly indeed.
    Originally posted by The Deep

    Absolutely agree, what a bleedin cheek!! what chance do we have with Judges like this around, I agree its a win but if it was me I would cause as big a stink as humanly possible otherwise how is the system ever gonna play fair.


    I bet Gallstones are p***in themselves laughing at this one, lets see if they are still laughing when Sir Greg Knights reforms come in the scumbags!
    The real meaning of life is the pursuit of happiness and avoidance of pain
    • bargepole
    • By bargepole 17th Nov 18, 5:09 PM
    • 2,455 Posts
    • 7,013 Thanks
    bargepole
    I think that judge served the defendant very poorly indeed.
    Originally posted by The Deep
    I disagree.

    The OP filed a Defence which was utter garbage, and then failed to comply with the Court's directions for filing and serving a WS.

    He then turned up for the hearing, as he should have done given that he was advised to do so by the court staff. But he then failed to inform the Judge at the outset, that he had received a late NOD from the Claimant, which had not been received by the Court in time to vacate the hearing.

    His argument should have been that the Claimant had acted unreasonably by filing an NOD too late to prevent the hearing from remaining in the daily listing.

    But, as with every other aspect of this case, anything he could do wrong, he did do wrong.

    I have been providing assistance, including Lay Representation at Court hearings (current score: won 34, lost 10), to defendants in parking cases for over 5 years. I have an LLB (Hons) degree, and am a Graduate member of CILEx, studying towards a Fellowship (equivalent to solicitor) in Civil Litigation. However, any advice given on these forums by me is NOT formal legal advice, and I accept no liability for its accuracy.
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