Official MSE Economy 7 Guide discussion

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  • Hi everyone.

    So recently moved into a flat with my girlfriend. The main bedroom, hall and lounge have storage heaters and as a result, we're on an economy 7 meter. As there is no gas supply to the flat we are electric only - we have two meters (one of the electricity and one for the storage heaters (as I understand it)).

    It seems to work out about £100 a month combined with npower. We both work full-time (near enough standard 9-5). We put the storage heaters on before bed (about 11ish) and turn them off when I wake up (about 7), Unfortunately, they don't have timers as they're exceptionally old!

    The whole two meter thing is very confusing and the bills don't help either.

    Can any give any advice as to whether £100 a month seems about right or can recommend another supplier to switch to?

    Thanks

    Chris
  • Hi everyone.

    So recently moved into a flat with my girlfriend. The main bedroom, hall and lounge have storage heaters and as a result, we're on an economy 7 meter. As there is no gas supply to the flat we are electric only - we have two meters (one of the electricity and one for the storage heaters (as I understand it)).

    It seems to work out about £100 a month combined with npower. We both work full-time (near enough standard 9-5). We put the storage heaters on before bed (about 11ish) and turn them off when I wake up (about 7), Unfortunately, they don't have timers as they're exceptionally old!

    The whole two meter thing is very confusing and the bills don't help either.

    Can any give any advice as to whether £100 a month seems about right or can recommend another supplier to switch to?

    Thanks

    Chris

    An 80's built or modernised flat could have 2 meters but more likely only 1. The water and heaters are out of your control, switching them off and on is a waste of the muscle in your index finger. The heaters are a 'purse' containing cheaper heat, the amount you get out depends on how much you put in. The NSH's have an input and an output, set the input to MAX and the output to MIN and whatever you put in in the 7 night time charging hours will release itself over the next 17 hours.

    You are only home for about 6 hours in 24, there should be no need for the output to be set for anything other than completely OFF, certainty it's not needed while at work or under the duvet. Much of the cost question depends on tariff / area code / insulation and % split between day & night counters on the meter. For example :

    - Scotland a lot more expensive than the south
    - E7 tariff, DD, e-account, 6 weekly supplied meter readings
    - 16th story anywhere badly insulated more expensive than 2nd floor well insulated
    - adequate storage quantity in the 1st place (millions are not)
    - glazing, walls and other insulation etc

    What is the EPC on your dwelling. What exact tariff name are you on. What is your energy supply code, I'm area 15 as you can see from my 'nym'. What is your % split its on your bill or e-account.How big are your NSH, 0.85- 1.7 - 2.5 - 3.4 etc? Most of the thousands who post each winter on MSE have no idea what the answer to these questions are so don't feel embarrassed and certainly most have no idea how to best use NSCH.

    Best of luck.
    Disclaimer : Everything I write on this forum is my opinion. I try to be an even-handed poster and accept that you at times may not agree with these opinions or how I choose to express them, this is not my problem. The Disabled : If years cannot be added to their lives, at least life can be added to their years - Alf Morris - ℜ
  • pineapple
    pineapple Posts: 6,931
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    edited 25 November 2016 at 10:46AM
    switching them off and on is a waste of the muscle in your index finger.
    What about someone like me then?
    In the winter I tend to rely on my Little Wenlock from late afternoon onwards. Even if it goes out overnight there is some residual heat in the morning. But sometimes not enough. If it is really cold I will have a storage heater on for a full overnight charge. But if I haven't had any heaters switched on and it is colder than expected, if I am up early I switch on one of my storage heaters for a quick burst with output set to max for the remaining one or two hours of cheap rate.
    Would it be cheaper and more effective to have an oil filled radiator on for that period instead?
    I've thought about ditching E7 but I use 50%-70% of my electric on cheap rate so for the moment will continue to run round like an idiot late night or early morning getting as much done as possible in the E7 window.
  • Hi, I'm new to this. I'm considering moving to an Economy 7 meter but I just don't know how much I consume in the night and during the day. But my home seems to tick a few boxes. I live in a new build flat, very well insulated, with a water tank that heats the water overnight. Is that enough to to make me any savings?
  • pineapple
    pineapple Posts: 6,931
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    edited 9 December 2016 at 11:19AM
    Possibly not. How do you heat your home? Usually it's those of us with storage heaters that get the most benefit. Find out what the off peak times are for your area then do a check for a week or so to compare how many units are used at off peak and peak times.
    http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/utilities/economy-7
  • Hi everyone,

    I'm a first time forum poster, so please bear with me as I hope to provide enough details to get some (friendly? :p) help and advice.

    I've recently (last 2 weeks) moved into a flat inside of a converted coach house. It's a private rental but I am liable for all of the bills, which was also the case at my previous property. My previous flat had Economy 7 so I was already aware of the peak/off-peak situation but the situation here is a bit different.

    I am a fairly energy conscious single occupant who works full time (Out of the house from roughly 6:30am - 5:30pm Mon-Fri) and was previously on a monthly direct debit of £26 with OVO. I was told that my new flat is EPC Rated C and is on a pay as you go meter with Ecotricity and that the previous tenants (of which there were 2, working at differing hours) paid around £40 between them a month for the electricity.

    The rate is 18.89p Day, 6.78p Night with a 20.37p standing charge.
    The average split on the meter seems to be 55% Day and 45% Night.
    Off peak hours are Midnight - 7am as confirmed by Ecotricity.

    However, I am struggling in two ways; the first is figuring out where on Earth all of my money is going from the meter. I have topped up £40 just over a week ago and it has all but gone. All that I have had running is the built-in fridge freezer on the lowest settings (A+ rated, 0.85 kwh per day), one energy saving light bulb in the evenings when I get home and my phone on to charge for a couple of hours on the nightly rate.

    I have been deliberately eating out (Oven & hob have remained off, microwave unplugged), washing at a friends (Tiny undercounter water tank, unlagged, on a timer which has remained off) and only using clothes & blankets for warmth (2 storage heaters. One which I tested for one night but other than that have remained off at the wall) as I just cannot figure out where all the money I'm topping up with is going. I called Ecotricity and they told me that there is no outstanding debt on the meter and as far as they can tell no faults which would cause this to happen.

    My second issue is heating. The flat consists of one main room with a mezzanine/balcony "bedroom". For those of you who love numbers, I will provide dimensions:

    Main room
    (including open plan kitchen area & balcony bedroom): L: 5.1m (16' 9") W: 6m (19' 8") H: 3.6m (12")
    For a total of 110 cubic metres (3884 cubic feet).

    In this I have 2 storage heaters, they seem to be fairly old with only an on/off switch at the wall and Input & Output dials (1-6).
    One is beneath two quite large windows (Each one 31 sq ft) and the other in a corner beneath a slightly smaller window.
    I turned the storage heater on beneath the two large windows at 11pm (Input 6, Output 1) and at 7am (I was not working) cranked up the output to see how warm it would get.
    Within about 15 minutes it had only gotten barely warm, I could comfortably keep both of my hands rested on the vents with no problem, despite it having charged all night and being on maximum output shortly before touching it. I don't know if the storage heaters are faulty or simply inadequate to warm a room of this size because I have to say, in the evening/night it is ABSOLUTELY FREEZING! (I'm talking hat, sweatshirt, 2 pairs of thermal socks, sleeping bag + 2 blankets and still can't feel my feet freezing!) It also cost me around £3.50 for those few hours of charging the one heater.


    Anyway, in summary for those of you who are still awake :p

    1. Does anyone know of any reason why my metered credit would be being used up so quickly despite having next to no power using appliances on?

    I used MSE's Cheap Energy Club comparison which recommended me Utilita's Smart Economy 7 Tariff but if there is something seriously wrong I obviously want to remedy that before switching suppliers.

    2. Does anyone have any helpful advice/ideas on how I can keep this place warm without it costing a fortune?
    The storage heaters just seem to eat up credit and do very little else.


    I apologise for the length of the post and thank anyone in advance who takes the time to read and respond to my woes.

    "Warm" wishes,

    2Of5
  • pineapple
    pineapple Posts: 6,931
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    edited 16 January 2017 at 11:49AM
    When I moved into this old cottage (two storage heaters), my first bill was eye watering despite not a huge amount of heat being kicked out. Then I rented a holiday cottage and the much newer storage heaters there were a revelation. I can only conclude that mine are in need of overhaul or replacement. I have two ancient Dimplex heaters which sound like yours. One of them in particular has large cold areas. Also despite having the output set on minimum overnight, it seems to release a load of heat while I am sleeping with not much in store for the day.
    It definitely sounds as though your storage heaters are not working as they should irrespective of whether they are adequate for the space. Also whether they should be adequate or not depends on the rating - there should be a model number somewhere. This of course is an issue for the landlord. It might be worth getting a temperature gauge and keeping a record.of room temperatures;
    But also the meter could be faulty. So worth doing a check of units used at different periods, day and night. You can then match it with what you are spending. It's a pain but it gives you something to go to the landlord or electricity company with.

    Till it is sorted how about a budget oil filled radiator? Also I find when I want to warm up quickly, laying against a hot water bottle in the small of the back does wonders.
  • glocal
    glocal Posts: 118
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    I am on E7 and the other day I had the lounge storage heater (Heatstore HSXC24N) on for 5 rather than the usual 7 hours. To my surprise, the following day we couldn't tell the difference. I am now wondering how many hours it actually takes for the heater to heat up. Reducing that permanently to 5, 3 or 2 hours could save significant amounts of energy and extend the life of the element. I am guessing there is a thermostat switching supply on and off, so it's not really 7 hours it consumes energy, but if, say, 2 hours is sufficient, it will still make a difference. I could and probably will experiment, but what do others do? Temperature in the lounge dropping in the middle of the night is not an issue here, so re-heating can start at 5am or so.
  • pineapple
    pineapple Posts: 6,931
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    I've wondered about this myself.
    Even my new heaters give off some heat though the output is switched to minimum. So I only switch on the heaters when I am going to bed and I switch them off around 6am when I get up. This means they are on 5/6 hours and it's fine.
  • [Deleted User]
    [Deleted User] Posts: 0
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    edited 19 February 2017 at 8:25PM
    I too have E7.
    Single occupant, homeowner, out at work although different shifts and I find my storage heaters are ok.Although living here for nearly 10 years it's probably because I'm used to them.
    I have two. One in the lounge and one in the bedroom .
    I very rarely have the bedroom one on and tend to use an electric blanket. But when I do have it on I turn it off from the wall half way through the night as I find it's too hot to have on for the full 7 hours.
    My lounge one is the main one I use but I do keep an eye on the weather.
    I've switched it off for the past 2 evening and will tomorrow as the weather is mild at the moment here.
    Storage heaters seem to only heat up a certain amount anyway and the temperature in the flat with the lounge storage heater on fluctuates dependent on the weather outside at the time.
    My annual bills were £420 last year and £460 this year. All electric flat, 2 bedroomed with normal appliances and the occasional use of a tumble drier and dehumidifier.
    Hallway no heater, bed 2 dimplex electric heater not connected to E7, no heater in kitchen or hall and only a pull cord electric heater in the bathroom.
    Like I said it does get cold but I'm used it by now.
    Hope this helps.
    Im not sure I could afford to put both storage heaters on full every day as I've tried to work out what they cost by jiggling the usage etc. It worked out at around £10 each per week so if both were on that would be £80 a month just in heating!!!!
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