Electric cars

RichardD1970 wrote: »

No reality and the I-Pace prove YOU wrong. JLR have done what you claim is impossible.

An old established ICE manufacturer who have, in the space of a few years (nowhere near the decade you guess at) designed, engineered and produced (admittedly via a third party but that is due to capacity constraints in the UK) a fully fledged Tesla worrying EV. With a newly designed, from the ground up EV/hybrid platform, for all their new models, due soon, once space is made at Solihull.

To quote Dr. Wolfgang Ziebart (Jaguars Technical Design Director) with regards the I-Pace "from a clean sheet of paper to a customer car in four years" (Tesla have taken 15 years to reach where they are now )

You really need to review what you write, stop contradicting yourself, stop banging on about GM (because it fits your narrative) and changing the point to fit your Tesla centric view. :rotfl:

Still pushing the Tesla fanboi angle I see. Perhaps you should review my positive comments about Jaguar.

You seem to have some strange ideological approach to this issue, highlighted by your claims to know about EV production, yet admitted not knowing about the Bolt (possibly the most important EV that's come out - maybe the Model 3, maybe the Bolt as it's from an old ICE company), and still claiming the I-Pace took two years to develop and bring to market.

Clearly I've challenged your automotive knowledge (and found it wanting), and that's upset you, but please don't dismiss reality, for the old boys to:
1. Develop an EV.
2. Develop a good EV.
3. Develop a good EV that they can sell (has adequate demand).
4. Develop a good EV that they can sell and make a profit on.

is not an easy thing. Just because they can build 'a car' doesn't mean they can build a desirable and profitable EV.

The sooner they can the better, and the I-Pace is extremely good news as it competes for a market share perhaps just below the X and above the coming Y, and this will further all EV's.

So, overall, do I still disagree with your original claim:

RichardD1970 wrote: »

Tesla started from scratch, no mean feat admittedly, but they would have had to overcome a lot of problems that established players just won't have to face.

I'm afraid I still do based on GM's and PSA's issues, and the fact that ICE's and EV's (true EV's, not hobbled together attempts to electrify an existing ICE model) are different animals, and require development of the electronics side, particularly the production, or partnership of quality batteries that can meet the already higher demands that customers expect (even Nissan fell foul of this with the 40kWh pack).

Anyway's, clearly we aren't going to see eye to eye on this, and your decision to go down the pathetic 'fanboi' route screams desperation, so perhaps we should end this now on a note we can both agree, and wish Jaguar all the very best with the I-Pace, which by all appearances and reviews, is an excellent addition to the growing ranks of decent EV's.

BTW, I'm not sure if you were serious or not about the 'Tesla worrying EV bit', this may just have been a projection of your going down the fanboi rabbithole and assuming such a remark would somehow irk me. This is an extremely over used claim, alongside 'Tesla killer', everytime a new EV is shown to the world. The car market is huge, and demand for quality EV's is far greater than supply, so the I-Pace is not a 'Tesla worrier' in the same way that a Model X is not a 'Jaguar worrier'. They are both ICE worriers.

More good EV news from UPS who are already using / trialing loads of low emissions vehicles such as the Workhorse step vans. They are now trying out another EV van from Thor.

UPS Will Test Medium Duty Class 6 Electric Trucks From Thor

UPS is constantly seeking new, more efficient, more environmentally friendly ways to deliver the packages that are the core of its business. Worldwide, it has about 9,300 low emissions vehicles in its fleet. They run the gamut from electric trucks to vehicles that are powered by hybrid electric, hydraulic hybrid, ethanol, compressed natural gas, liquefied natural gas, and propane. In some places, it even uses old fashioned pedal power to get the job done.

NBLondon wrote: »

Interesting - I wonder if it's also a different tax bracket in some cases - commercial vehicles? I gather that is/was a key factor in Ireland leading to the Land Rover Discovery and Range Rover Classic being built with no side windows and taxed as a van.

So the Tesla Pick-Up Martyn mentions would probably far exceed the (lowered) standards for emissions and economy but could it hit the price point? From a fleet perspective - you go back to total cost of running it but from a second-car or cowboy-image prospect it might have to look different from that link.

I'd assume that the Tesla pickup (or any large pickup) will cost way more than the Ford F series, Rams, Silverado's etc, especially since, as you say, the larger heavier vehicles are actually allowed to meet lower standards (crazy!).

So it'll be down to total operating costs, but also versatility. Tesla will have the ability to power tools, which could be ideal for those 'out and about'. The Workhorse range extender can do this and has excellent specs.

What little Elon has confirmed is that the Tesla pick up will be a full size (like the F series, not the tiny Rangers we see in the UK). It'll seat 6, and (he may have been boasting, not sure) fit Andre the Giant in the drivers seat (in response to a question from someone who was 6ft 8in if memory serves me).

It'll pull, like only an EV can pull, and do 400 miles range. Though that range sounds questionable to me, as for a large slab of a vehicle, I'd assume it'll need a 150kWh+ battery pack?

Edit - Apologies, I missed the link giving the what we know so far on the pick up. Really interesting. M.

AdrianC wrote: »

Martyn - you've mentioned the Tavares/PSA comments several times now, but let's have a look at the reality, shall we?

That's strange, last we 'chatted' you threw out a whole string of false claims and accusations about the Model 3 future production numbers, but seem to now want to switch conversations - PSA fanboi perhaps?


BTW - the Model 3 is already in 8th spot in the US for all cars, not just the small/midsize luxury segment (where it is top). So I stand by my guess:

Martyn1981 wrote: »

1. Tesla may be taking market share from 'ordinary' cars, not just the small luxury market. I'm only guessing, but the Model 3 could/might outsell all other cars from Aug 18 to July 19 in the US. Might even get close to the Ford F150 pick up. Quite an achievement.

Oh, and just for clarification, my excitement has little to do with Tesla as an individual, but the message that will be made/sent if an EV can get to, or close to top spot in US car sales.