Advice on new patio

Head_The_Ball · 9 May 2018 at 4:52PM

Matt19849 wrote: »

...We have also read you need to treat Limestone and Sandstone slabs yearly which we don't want to do if we can avoid it...

Treat with what?

Last summer we had about 70 sq meters of Marshalls Indian Limestone laid in our back garden. No 'treatment' was applied after laying and we were not advised to 'treat' it.

The advice we received, from an accredited Marshalls installer, was to rinse it off with a hose pipe and water if it got dirty. In our experience, rain is usually sufficient to keep it clean.

A year later it still looks much as it did when laid. In the winter, a few patches of green algae appeared in the pointing but that disappeared after a hosing down without using any bleach or proprietary patio products.

We are very pleased with it so I do suggest that you reconsider Limestone or Sandstone.

I'll post a few pictures later.

Matt19849 · 9 May 2018 at 4:53PM

Head_The_Ball wrote: »

Treat with what?

Last summer we had about 70 sq meters of Marshalls Indian Limestone laid in our back garden. No 'treatment' was applied after laying and we were not advised to 'treat' it.

The advice we received, from an accredited Marshalls installer, was to rinse it off with a hose pipe and water if it got dirty.

A year later it still looks much as it did when laid. There were a few patches of green algae in the pointing and that disappeared after a hosing down without using any bleach or proprietary patio products.

We are very pleased with it so I do suggest that you reconsider Limestone or Sandstone.

We were told by someone you would need to put a "sealer" on it every year to keep it looking new and in good condition....

Head_The_Ball · 9 May 2018 at 5:22PM

This is what the Paving Expert has to say about sealing stone paving.

But even more importantly, it should be noted that sealing of stone paving is not essential, mandatory or necessarily recommended. There is an urban myth, heavily promoted by those with a financial interest in selling and applying sealants, that all new stone paving should be sealed. The technical term for this is B******s

More here.

As far as I am aware, those comments apply to Indian Sandstone but I am not an expert so I may be wrong.

kerri_gt · 9 May 2018 at 6:04PM

We looked at exterior porcelain slabs for a patio last year and for reasons I won't go into ended up going with sandstone - the place we looked at also had these pedestal install systems but we couldn't really see how these different from the dot dab type of installation only cowboys do.

Given the choice again, we would go with the original porcelain slabs we wanted, bedded into a base pretty much the way you would lay an interior floor.

Furts · 9 May 2018 at 6:12PM

Matt19849 wrote: »

Fair do's - I appreciate all your advice and everything is taken on board!

I'm not being awkward, not ignoring anything that is being said etc just still no clearer on what I should be doing

Thanks for the Type 1 advice - that has been taken onboard.

Regards not using the pedestals thats fine but when mortar apparently doesn't stick to porcelain i'm not sure the best way forward.
With regards to not using porcelain, as I mentioned I haven't found the type of slab that we want to use other than this one (colour and smoother etc) so feel there is no other option at the moment.

I'm not here to argue with people but if the answer is don't do it then it would be nice to have some alternatives if possible

You mentioned you aren't sure why i'm not using the proven, cheap, easy method. That is mainly because we can't find the right colour slab so trying to find a solution for what we can find

I am pretty much out now, there is little point, and you are fixated on your porcelain and plastic supports. Bear in mind your 50mm stone is woefully inadequate for a sub base. Only you know your soil conditions but 75mm - 150mm would be typical. What finish goes on this and how do you level it to shape? On this you expect to sit small plastic supports - how do you propose to fix these down, level them up and then stop them moving? Onto this goes your porcelain and when I comment on chipping you say that the thickness will prevent this - which is an illogical reply.

Marshalls are reputable company and everybody in landscaping and groundworks is aware of them. Head the Ball has mentioned this company - good on them - and now you are going at odds with them instead of me.

In the nicest way possible, you clearly have no idea of what you are doing. Yes this forum exists to give help. Yes this can work if the good people posting are prepared to take the replies and analyse them.

This time I am definitely out!

Matt19849 · 9 May 2018 at 6:47PM

Furts wrote: »

I am pretty much out now, there is little point, and you are fixated on your porcelain and plastic supports. Bear in mind your 50mm stone is woefully inadequate for a sub base. Only you know your soil conditions but 75mm - 150mm would be typical. What finish goes on this and how do you level it to shape? On this you expect to sit small plastic supports - how do you propose to fix these down, level them up and then stop them moving? Onto this goes your porcelain and when I comment on chipping you say that the thickness will prevent this - which is an illogical reply.

Marshalls are reputable company and everybody in landscaping and groundworks is aware of them. Head the Ball has mentioned this company - good on them - and now you are going at odds with them instead of me.

In the nicest way possible, you clearly have no idea of what you are doing. Yes this forum exists to give help. Yes this can work if the good people posting are prepared to take the replies and analyse them.

This time I am definitely out!

Furts- please stop posting on this thread, you're making this very pointless. I'm not sure how many times I have to mention I haven't paid for anything and i'm still open to advice.
Not once did I say I was dead set on porcelain, i did say i'm struggling to find the right slab at the moment and porcelain is the only one that looks right - that isn't me saying i'm 100% going with porcelain at the moment.
Thanks for the heads up on the sub base - i'll consider deeper - this was the first time that has been bought up and as I previously mentioned i'm after advice, I read somewhere 50mm was enough so this is me checking!
As for the plastic supports, like I previously said i'm unsure what else to use as mortar apparently doesn't stick to porcelain - again if someone has a better solution for sticking porcelain down then i'm all ears
I've been looking at Marshalls and will be showing my partner tonight so again that wasn't ignored, I just wasn't aware I had to give a minute by minute update on everything i'm doing/taking form the responses

Please stick to your word though and don't post anymore on this thread.

Matt19849 · 9 May 2018 at 6:49PM

Head_The_Ball wrote: »

This is what the Paving Expert has to say about sealing stone paving.

More here.

As far as I am aware, those comments apply to Indian Sandstone but I am not an expert so I may be wrong.

Thanks for that link, it sounds like i've been fed wrong advice so i'll have a good read on that page and maybe re-consider limestone

Matt19849 · 9 May 2018 at 6:50PM

kerri_gt wrote: »

We looked at exterior porcelain slabs for a patio last year and for reasons I won't go into ended up going with sandstone - the place we looked at also had these pedestal install systems but we couldn't really see how these different from the dot dab type of installation only cowboys do.

Given the choice again, we would go with the original porcelain slabs we wanted, bedded into a base pretty much the way you would lay an interior floor.

Is there a reason you would chose porcelain over the sandstone if you could do it again?
Everyone else seems to think sandstone/limestone is the better option at the moment

kerri_gt · 9 May 2018 at 7:14PM

Matt19849 wrote: »

Is there a reason you would chose porcelain over the sandstone if you could do it again?
Everyone else seems to think sandstone/limestone is the better option at the moment

We chose porcelain as our first option because it was the colour / finish we wanted. We then had quotes back and basically (steering clear of the plastic support system) were advised you need to lay the slabs a bit like you were laying them inside, so putting down a concrete base / floor then applying the slabs on top like tiling a floor (that's a very rough method overview) The quotes came back as expensive because it is in effect more like laying two patios with the two step process (the concrete base which needs to be level - and dry, then the slabs)

We were, by in large talked out of using porcelain by the contractor we chose who could do other aspects of the job other contractors couldn't but he had never laid porcelain before, wasn't overly happy doing it and it was looking very costly - so we went with sandstone as giving a similar look / finish to what we wanted.

Overall the sandstone slabs do look good - but knowing what we know now, we would not be led by a contractor like that again and in hindsight, should have gone with the company happy to lay our original choice.

Incidentally I tried the particular porcelain slabs outside at the showroom on a wet day with Ugg boots on ... the ones we tried were definitely not slippy.

Matt19849 · 9 May 2018 at 7:18PM

kerri_gt wrote: »

We chose porcelain as our first option because it was the colour / finish we wanted. We then had quotes back and basically (steering clear of the plastic support system) were advised you need to lay the slabs a bit like you were laying them inside, so putting down a concrete base / floor then applying the slabs on top like tiling a floor (that's a very rough method overview) The quotes came back as expensive because it is in effect more like laying two patios with the two step process (the concrete base which needs to be level - and dry, then the slabs)

We were, by in large talked out of using porcelain by the contractor we chose who could do other aspects of the job other contractors couldn't but he had never laid porcelain before, wasn't overly happy doing it and it was looking very costly - so we went with sandstone as giving a similar look / finish to what we wanted.

Overall the sandstone slabs do look good - but knowing what we know now, we would not be led by a contractor like that again and in hindsight, should have gone with the company happy to lay our original choice.

Incidentally I tried the particular porcelain slabs outside at the showroom on a wet day with Ugg boots on ... the ones we tried were definitely not slippy.

Thanks for this, the ones we've been looking at are outdoor slabs and have the non slip surface to them so in theory they shouldn't be slippy at all. We have porcelain tiles in our walk in shower and they aren't slippy in the slightest when wet.

Do you remember the thickness of the porcelain you were looking at? The ones we are considering are 20mm thick, i'm wondering if it would be the same process for laying them (level concrete base etc)

Advice on new patio

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