Regular Saver Thread **New and Restarted**
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You might be in for a bit of a shock in March 2019 then.ValiantSon wrote: »Aside from the fact that entitlements don't change on passports(!)
Your logic about the need for passports to be unexpired for 'true likeness' reasons is impeccable, but fundamentally flawed by the fact Virgin (and most other banks) accept a pre-1998 (non-photo) driving licence as a valid list 'A' document. For that matter they also accept certain HMRC letters which I've never known to contain a photo.ValiantSon wrote: »It is perfectly reasonable, therefore, for banks to insist that the passport presented to verify ID is a current one, and not an expired one.
So whilst a Virgin Money store worker might struggle to recognise me from my 10 year plus one day old passport (but managed absolutely fine the day before), I would have a simple solution of handing over a photoless letter from HMRC instead. As we probably aren't going to agree on what is reasonable or not (and to avoid cluttering up the thread further) we should probably agree that the overall ID policy they adopt is bonkers and leave it at that."In the future, everyone will be rich for 15 minutes"0 -
ValiantSon wrote: »Yes, I do understand why new passports are required. I was pointing out the illogic in surreysaver's comments.
That once we didn't have photo driving licences is rather irrelevant, isn't it, as now we do.
Nonsense. The reason why you have to get a new photo driving licence and passport every ten years is because you age, and the photo may no longer be a good enough likeness to verify identity accurately. It has nothing to do with entitlements changing. Aside from the fact that entitlements don't change on passports(!) if you have categories added to, or removed from your driving licence, then you have to get a new one issued at that point, not at the next 10 year interval.
It is perfectly reasonable, therefore, for banks to insist that the passport presented to verify ID is a current one, and not an expired one.
You DO NOT need to get a new photo for driving licience/passport renewals. Your photo can be applicable for up to 20 years.
If you already have either of these documents you can use the current photo for the other document as long as the original document is valid.
I applied for a passport renewal last year and used my diving licience photo (already held by UK GOV) which was just under 10 years old so by the time the passport expires it will be just under 20 years old.0 -
You might be in for a bit of a shock in March 2019 then.
Oh dear, you are confusing visa restrictions with passport entitlements. These are not the same thing. Your passport has the same entitlements no matter when it was issued and to which countries you are travelling. As members of the EU, we have no visa restrictions on travel to other member states. This has nothing to do with entitlements on the passport.Your logic about the need for passports to be unexpired for 'true likeness' reasons is impeccable, but fundamentally flawed by the fact Virgin (and most other banks) accept a pre-1998 (non-photo) driving licence as a valid list 'A' document. For that matter they also accept certain HMRC letters which I've never known to contain a photo.
No, it isn't fundamentally flawed. That they choose to accept non-photographic ID is irrelevant. With photographic ID they require it to be current. End of.So whilst a Virgin Money store worker might struggle to recognise me from my 10 year plus one day old passport (but managed absolutely fine the day before), I would have a simple solution of handing over a photoless letter from HMRC instead. As we probably aren't going to agree on what is reasonable or not (and to avoid cluttering up the thread further) we should probably agree that the overall ID policy they adopt is bonkers and leave it at that.
It was you who tried to pick the argument with me.0 -
Wheres_My_Cashback wrote: »You DO NOT need to get a new photo for driving licience/passport renewals. Your photo can be applicable for up to 20 years.
If you already have either of these documents you can use the current photo for the other document as long as the original document is valid.
I applied for a passport renewal last year and used my diving licience photo (already held by UK GOV) which was just under 10 years old so by the time the passport expires it will be just under 20 years old.
That sounds like a technical issue with the new online application system. It also isn't what the Passport Agency say:
https://www.gov.uk/renew-adult-passport/renewYou must get a new photo when you get a new passport, even if your appearance has not changed.
Your photo must have been taken in the last month.
https://www.gov.uk/photos-for-passports
I'm also rather puzzled, as it is DVLA who hold your driving licence photograph, not the Passport Agency, and it is not permitted to share information like this across agencies. Such sharing of information is entirely limited, and the use of DVLA and Passport Agency data to verify identity on the gov.uk website does not permit the sharing of the data between the agencies.0 -
Well DVLA used the photograph from my passport without issue.
I seem to recall that it only did this if the passport was less than[STRIKE] six months[/STRIKE] five years old and you couldn't do the reverse and use the picture from your driving licence on your passport.
Of course the rules may have changed since.
But it does not seem to have. https://www.gov.uk/renew-photo-driving-licence0 -
greenglide wrote: »Well DVLA used the photograph from my passport without issue.
I seem to recall that it only did this if the passport was less than six months old and you couldn't do the reverse and use the picture from your driving licence on your passport.
Of course the rules may have changed since.
I could see it working that way, i.e. passport photo used on new driving licence (especially with the short timeframe limitation of six months), but not the other way, as Wheres My Cashback claims. Passport Agency rules are clear, as I have posted and provided the links to.
I would be interested to see the legislation (almost certainly an order in council) which allowed for the sharing of this information as it is a significant change in law regarding inter-agency information sharing. I'm not saying it hasn't happened.
ETA: I've just looked at DVLA's site. They do talk about taking your photo and signature from your passport. This is interesting, and does rather undermine the requirement to get a new licence every 10 years. Nonetheless, according to the Passport Agency, you cannot do things the other way around.
This also doesn't change the requirement by banks to use valid ID, rather than cancelled ID. The valid ID is recognised by the state as being valid, whereas the cancelled ID isn't.
Arguments about it being only one day out of date are utterly ridiculous, because there has to be some cut-off point, as there is in any every other area of life. Why should someone who is 17 years and 364 days old be denied the vote? Why is someone who is 15 years and 364 days old not considered old enough to give consent for sex? The answer is that we draw a line and that's where the line is.0 -
I think it is five years, not six months (not sure where I got the six months from!).
It has been like that for many years now.0 -
Don't know what you lot are bickering about regarding photo ID. Personally I don't have any , driving licence is old and green , passport is long gone. Being middle aged and pig headed ,I`m actually proud of that. Has this caused me any problems, NO. I can honestly say ,I have never been declined any product financial or otherwise because they couldn't verify my identity. If this ever did become a problem, I would simply go elsewhere. On principle of the matter.0
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ceredigion wrote: »Don't know what you lot are bickering about regarding photo ID. Personally I don't have any , driving licence is old and green , passport is long gone. Being middle aged and pig headed ,I`m actually proud of that. Has this caused me any problems, NO. I can honestly say ,I have never been declined any product financial or otherwise because they couldn't verify my identity. If this ever did become a problem, I would simply go elsewhere. On principle of the matter.
Wait until you are 70, then you will have to surrender that paper licence for a photo licence. The same thing will happen if you move house.0 -
ValiantSon wrote: »Wait until you are 70, then you will have to surrender that paper licence for a photo licence. The same thing will happen if you move house.
Next move will be to a coffin before my 70th0
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