Floorboard movements in house

mutley74 · 1 January 2018 at 9:24PM

In my dad's house - detached 4 bedroom house about 1970 built.

Over the past few months we have noticed floorboards starting to move (buckle?) across the upstairs and now downstairs. To the points you can feel slight ridges under the carpets. Now lots of squeaky floorboards in each room.
Only a very minor hairline crack in the upstairs ceiling. No wall cracks or any other signs detected.

What could be the cause of this?
If he concerned he if calls his insurance company it will be counted as a structural claim, as he wants to sell the house later this year.

any advice most appreciated.

lauraland · 2 January 2018 at 12:47AM

woodworm or dry rot? You really need to lift the carpets to have a proper look though

EachPenny · 2 January 2018 at 1:46AM

Has he changed the way he heats the house in recent months? I.e. a lot hotter or colder, heating on all day rather than part-time? Has he started using a dehumidifier? Started/stopped using extractor fans or appliances which generate water vapour? (showers, hobs, etc).

I'd associate the symptoms you mention with a type of warping known as 'cupping'. That kind of movement can happen if there are significant variations in moisture content of the wood, which might be linked to temperature changes or things in the house which are increasing/decreasing the amount of water vapour.

mutley74 · 2 January 2018 at 11:33AM

EachPenny wrote: »

Has he changed the way he heats the house in recent months? I.e. a lot hotter or colder, heating on all day rather than part-time? Has he started using a dehumidifier? Started/stopped using extractor fans or appliances which generate water vapour? (showers, hobs, etc).

I'd associate the symptoms you mention with a type of warping known as 'cupping'. That kind of movement can happen if there are significant variations in moisture content of the wood, which might be linked to temperature changes or things in the house which are increasing/decreasing the amount of water vapour.

no changes to heating, in fact always kept warm around 20C. I house sat a few for him in November, and found nothing unusual. No de-humidifier in use.
Worrying thing is that its happening downstairs and upstairs.
Is it worth him paying for a structural engineer or surveyor for advice? Or call insurance company (although no damage is visible) .

EachPenny · 2 January 2018 at 12:27PM

mutley74 wrote: »

no changes to heating, in fact always kept warm around 20C. I house sat a few for him in November, and found nothing unusual. No de-humidifier in use.
Worrying thing is that its happening downstairs and upstairs.
Is it worth him paying for a structural engineer or surveyor for advice? Or call insurance company (although no damage is visible) .

If it is 'cupping' then I can't think of any cause which would be 'structural' and therefore a structural engineer's time would be wasted. Structural causes would likely result in cracking in walls and ceilings, but you only mention a very minor hairline crack in the upstairs ceiling (presumably the ceiling below the loft?) rather than in the ground floor ceilings (below the first-floor floorboards which are the problem).

I personally would try lifting some carpets to have a close look at what is going on. For a 1970's built house I'd expect the floorboards to be simple rectangular section planks with small gaps between them (i.e. not T&G). The gaps allow for expansion of the boards. If this is how your floors are laid then check to see if there are gaps. If there are no gaps it is possible that swelling of the boards has caused the floor to buckle.

Private_Church · 2 January 2018 at 1:20PM

EachPenny wrote: »

If it is 'cupping' then I can't think of any cause which would be 'structural' and therefore a structural engineer's time would be wasted. Structural causes would likely result in cracking in walls and ceilings, but you only mention a very minor hairline crack in the upstairs ceiling (presumably the ceiling below the loft?) rather than in the ground floor ceilings (below the first-floor floorboards which are the problem).

I personally would try lifting some carpets to have a close look at what is going on. For a 1970's built house I'd expect the floorboards to be simple rectangular section planks with small gaps between them (i.e. not T&G). The gaps allow for expansion of the boards. If this is how your floors are laid then check to see if there are gaps. If there are no gaps it is possible that swelling of the boards has caused the floor to buckle.

I agree with your post apart from the highlighted part. Timber floors were always laid with no gaps and as tight as possible.The reason being when the house dried out with the heating the boards would shrink . If you fit a timber floor with a 2mm gap between the boards ,when they shrink you can have 4-6mm gaps which is too much. Even with most T&G softwood pine floor boards the tongues are only around 6mm wide.

In the old days (pre 70's) they used floor board cramps to cramp together a number of boards at a time before nailing them down.

If the house is a typical type 60's,70's built house then typically it would have whitewood pine T&G floor boards.

Floorboards don't expand unless there lots of moisture around, ie floods or walls saturated which would easily be noticed.

Furts · 2 January 2018 at 1:33PM

The floor could be T&G softwood, as Private Church has said. But chipboard floor sheets superseded this and these sheets were in use in the 1970s. Hence OP would need to see what they have.

I have seen chipboard sheets ridge along there 2400 side years after a house was built - depends how they were laid and the joist direction and detail

EachPenny · 2 January 2018 at 1:45PM

Private_Church wrote: »

I agree with your post apart from the highlighted part. Timber floors were always laid with no gaps and as tight as possible.The reason being when the house dried out with the heating the boards would shrink . If you fit a timber floor with a 2mm gap between the boards ,when they shrink you can have 4-6mm gaps which is too much. Even with most T&G softwood pine floor boards the tongues are only around 6mm wide.

Fair point, I didn't explain it as well as I could have. What I meant was the OP should probably expect to see gaps, if there aren't any then it implies there might be something wrong with the moisture content. I.e. the boards have returned to their as-laid state (or have swollen) rather than being nice and dry with small gaps between them.

I guess this is a case where some pictures might help....

mutley74 · 2 January 2018 at 2:18PM

Thanks all for replies.
Yes it is a hairline crack in upstairs ceiling, looks like along a plaster board joint.
In early December 2 downstairs internal doors were slightly jamming when closing (never happened before) but they close okay now.

I do recall when my dad got carpets fitted many years ago the floor boards are just general planks not T&G type.
Still weird why this is happening across the house. No signs of leaks internally or externally where moisture could get in. He opens all the house windows every day for least an hour to prevent moisture buildup, has air bricks around the house etc. No signs of dampness anywhere.

Furts · 2 January 2018 at 3:59PM

You will have to monitor matters, and keep quiet about things in the meantime. None of us forum folks know what type of foundations exists, nor about clay soil, presence of trees, any backfilled ground, or made up levels, or sloping plots. Which means without seeing the home there is not a lot I can add.

However your situation does sound alarming. I had experience of door issues on a home, then subsequently lived in two structurally defective homes. Which all means this is a topic that touches a nerve in me. Even more so because I repaired and rebuilt the one home and know what damage that can do to ordinary folks finances!

Keep everyone posted on what may happen.

mutley74 · 2 January 2018 at 5:02PM

Furts wrote: »

You will have to monitor matters, and keep quiet about things in the meantime. None of us forum folks know what type of foundations exists, nor about clay soil, presence of trees, any backfilled ground, or made up levels, or sloping plots. Which means without seeing the home there is not a lot I can add.

However your situation does sound alarming. I had experience of door issues on a home, then subsequently lived in two structurally defective homes. Which all means this is a topic that touches a nerve in me. Even more so because I repaired and rebuilt the one home and know what damage that can do to ordinary folks finances!

Keep everyone posted on what may happen.

No trees nearby, ground around the house is level - no hills or embankments or slops. Nearest building is about 1m to adjacent garage.
I'm checking every day i visit my dad, but really concerned as want him to sell and downsize.

Floorboard movements in house

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