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  • FIRST POST
    • masterminion
    • By masterminion 15th Apr 18, 8:15 PM
    • 13Posts
    • 1Thanks
    masterminion
    Redundancy Process - Transfer to Another Branch
    • #1
    • 15th Apr 18, 8:15 PM
    Redundancy Process - Transfer to Another Branch 15th Apr 18 at 8:15 PM
    Hello,

    I am really sorry for a long-ish thread but I would love to hear some unbiased opinions and wanted to explain the matter as well as I could. I have a question regarding working out statutory notice period at another branch during redundancy process.

    After working for a company for over 12 years at the same location my job was terminated and I have been offered redundancy. Because this was arranged after my place of work was closed my employer requested that I work my notice period out (12 weeks) at another branch. Which they call a temporary transfer. I do appreciate that an employer has no obligation to offer PILON but since I was already made redundant it doesn't make much sense to send me to another site. I am not sure if I am right but I can see some kind of contradiction here. If I am needed at another site (temporary or not) why was I made redundant in the first place? Does it make any sense to you as I find it rather confusing?

    I have already started working at another branch and I have been engaged in the communication with the employer in order to leave ASAP and get PILON since this seems like the best and most logical solution here. They have now agreed to shorten my notice period but still refuse to pay in lieu for the reminder.

    Since I have been based at the same location for the whole length of my employment I have been trying to argue that it is against my contract to move me to another site. I only worked occasional single shifts at other sites on ad hoc basis but only voluntarily and only when I agreed to it. It was never expected or requested of me to work anywhere else. In any case, this has never happened for a prolonged period of time (consecutive shifts). Also, since the beginning of 2016 I have only worked at my branch. There is a slight problem however as I don't have a written contract with them.
    The final answer I received from the employer regarding this matter is as follows: "In terms of the mobility clause, we have not seen the contract of employment but believe that it is likely that there would be an express clause within it; this is standard practice. Regardless of having visibility of the express clause we believe that there is at the very least an implied term through custom and practice and/or the business efficacy test. The request for you to work the remainder of your notice period at other branch is a reasonable one for all the reasons I've already outlined."

    At this point I decided that I don't want to stay with the employer for much longer and would like to leave as soon as possible. I understand that if I agree to shorten my notice period and leave with immediate effect I wouldn't be able to claim the notice period remuneration afterwards. Is that correct?

    What would you suggest is the best course of action at this point? Is there any place you could suggest to get a free legal advice fairly quickly? I can make an appointment with CAB solicitor but unfortunately they are not available for another couple of weeks in my area.

    Thank you.
Page 1
    • getmore4less
    • By getmore4less 15th Apr 18, 9:46 PM
    • 31,903 Posts
    • 19,124 Thanks
    getmore4less
    • #2
    • 15th Apr 18, 9:46 PM
    • #2
    • 15th Apr 18, 9:46 PM
    how far away is the other location?
    • masterminion
    • By masterminion 15th Apr 18, 9:55 PM
    • 13 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    masterminion
    • #3
    • 15th Apr 18, 9:55 PM
    • #3
    • 15th Apr 18, 9:55 PM
    Not that far, really. About half an hour longer each way give or take. Plus, they even agreed to cover the cost of travel to make sure I have no reason to complain about as I have already pointed it out..

    Do you think I could argue that through custom and practice we can actually establish opposite since I haven't worked at other sites for 2.5 years and have never worked more than a single shift at a time? Also, stating the fact that something is common doesn't prove that it exists in my contract, does it?
    Last edited by masterminion; 15-04-2018 at 10:04 PM.
    • Xbigman
    • By Xbigman 15th Apr 18, 11:37 PM
    • 3,064 Posts
    • 1,314 Thanks
    Xbigman
    • #4
    • 15th Apr 18, 11:37 PM
    • #4
    • 15th Apr 18, 11:37 PM
    It is perfectly acceptable to ask someone to work their notice at another location. If it is essentially the same job for the same pay and a reasonable commute you are stuffed. Add on that they are paying your travelling expenses and you have no case at all.
    You should spend your notice period looking for other jobs and don't do anything that might endanger you redundancy pay.

    I would probably be annoyed about this if I was in your shoes but that's the way it is.



    Darren
    Xbigman's guide to a happy life.

    Eat properly
    Sleep properly
    Save some money
    • masterminion
    • By masterminion 16th Apr 18, 12:03 AM
    • 13 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    masterminion
    • #5
    • 16th Apr 18, 12:03 AM
    • #5
    • 16th Apr 18, 12:03 AM
    It is perfectly acceptable to ask someone to work their notice at another location. If it is essentially the same job for the same pay and a reasonable commute you are stuffed. Add on that they are paying your travelling expenses and you have no case at all.
    Originally posted by Xbigman
    Thanks. That makes sense, of course. However, do you think this also applies when there is no mobility clause in the contract? Can they still ask someone to work at another location? I know this is not straightforward here due to lack of written contract but I was wondering what happens in such case. Cheers.
    • getmore4less
    • By getmore4less 16th Apr 18, 9:02 AM
    • 31,903 Posts
    • 19,124 Thanks
    getmore4less
    • #6
    • 16th Apr 18, 9:02 AM
    • #6
    • 16th Apr 18, 9:02 AM
    I would be very careful,

    All it needs is for someone at the new location to resign, create a vacancy, they then say this is a suitable alternative, which given the distance/time is possible, then you are no longer redundant.

    They don't even need to have someone resign they can just say there is a job for you here, take it or resign.


    These days reasonable mobility is an implied term.

    Reasonable is subjective, ie expecting a min wage cleaner to relocate would be less reasonable than a finance director.

    ................................
    They could say this a suitable alternative on the closure of your old place(making it your current job) unfortunately this position will also be redundant shortly....
    • masterminion
    • By masterminion 16th Apr 18, 10:13 AM
    • 13 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    masterminion
    • #7
    • 16th Apr 18, 10:13 AM
    • #7
    • 16th Apr 18, 10:13 AM
    Oh, interesting. Does it mean that my redundancy offer can still be retracted? Even considering that I have already received the termination letter with the redundancy offer included. I didn't know that.
    Last edited by masterminion; 16-04-2018 at 10:36 AM.
    • masterminion
    • By masterminion 16th Apr 18, 12:23 PM
    • 13 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    masterminion
    • #8
    • 16th Apr 18, 12:23 PM
    • #8
    • 16th Apr 18, 12:23 PM
    Oh, interesting. Does it mean that my redundancy offer can still be retracted? Even considering that I have already received the termination letter with the redundancy offer included. I didn't know that.
    Originally posted by masterminion
    To answer my own question, apparently it cannot, at least according to this information.
    • getmore4less
    • By getmore4less 16th Apr 18, 2:02 PM
    • 31,903 Posts
    • 19,124 Thanks
    getmore4less
    • #9
    • 16th Apr 18, 2:02 PM
    • #9
    • 16th Apr 18, 2:02 PM
    To answer my own question, apparently it cannot, at least according to this information.
    Originally posted by masterminion
    Read that again, ALL the way to the bottom.

    To withdraw the notice requires the mutual agreement

    You can still leave using the notice given BUT you can lose the redundancy payment.


    This is why counter notice can be quite important if you find another job, even then redundancy can be withdrawn but changes the balance of reasonable.
    • masterminion
    • By masterminion 16th Apr 18, 3:23 PM
    • 13 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    masterminion
    Ha! Of course you right. I just assumed (wrong) that mutual agreement is always required as per 1st paragraph. Glad you kept an eye on this thread. Thank you.
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