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  • FIRST POST
    • Pianothing
    • By Pianothing 7th Apr 18, 8:25 AM
    • 27Posts
    • 6Thanks
    Pianothing
    DRO and preferential payments rules
    • #1
    • 7th Apr 18, 8:25 AM
    DRO and preferential payments rules 7th Apr 18 at 8:25 AM
    Hi

    I'm at my wits end. My debts are out of control. I've taken out payday loans and high interest credit cards to pay living expenses, I've got two enforcement officers and and a High Court Enforcement Officer banging on the door. I finally spoke to the CAB about getting some help and support and have an appointment on Monday. The advisor I spoke to is one that can do DROs and he said that based on my budget I qualify for a DRO.

    My problem is, I can't demonstrate I haven't made preferential payments. I suffer with anxiety so when I get a bailiffs visit, even though it's only a letter through the door, I pay them something in the hope that they'll leave me alone for a little while. The payday loans are on a continuous payment authority so they've been taken from my account.

    Are the insolvency service really strict about preferential payments? I can't pay my bills and would have so little money left that I couldn't pay an iva. I'm terrified I'll be told I need to declare myself bankrupt as I could loose my home and my job and I don't have the upfront payment to go down that route.

    I'm stuck in a complete mess with what seems like no sensible solution.

    Has anyone else been in this situation and still managed to get a DRO?

    Thank you for reading.
Page 2
  • National Debtline
    Hi Pianothing


    I'm a little late to this thread but it seems you have made great progress in the three days since you first posted.


    Just to reiterate what others have said above, not every single type of debt is listed on a credit file - council tax, benefit overpayments and some utilities being just three examples. The credit file is used to help your DRO intermediary match up as much information as possible, ensure its accuracy and that nothing is accidentally missed out on your application.


    You sound like a thorough sort of person, which makes the intermediary's life a lot easier, believe me.


    Easy for me to say, but I would be inclined to put all the HCEO research etc. on the back burner for now - it's going to get included in the DRO anyway and I think your energies could be better directed elsewhere.


    Best wishes


    Dennis
    @natdebtline
    We work as money advisers for National Debtline and have specific permission from MSE to post to try to help those in debt. Read more information on National Debtline in MSE's Debt Problems: What to do and where to get help guide. If you find you're struggling with debt and need further help try our online advice tool My Money Steps
    • Jakkikim
    • By Jakkikim 10th Apr 18, 6:38 PM
    • 1 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    Jakkikim
    Try Step Change Charity, they go through every aspect of the DRO, I managed to get the fee paid for me by the Civil Service Charity as I used to work for them. I worried for years about my debts but with a DRO I am now debt free.
    • Pianothing
    • By Pianothing 10th Apr 18, 9:25 PM
    • 27 Posts
    • 6 Thanks
    Pianothing
    Thank you so much for your post Twubble.

    I really hope you're right. I had an email from the HCEOs office today telling me I have till Friday to go back to them with a new proposal or the enforcement agent will be let loose again. I think my debt advisor said I should just ignore them. I'm hoping that between Friday and Monday 23rd April they will only visit once and hopefully then my DRO will be approved within a couple of days.
    • fatbelly
    • By fatbelly 11th Apr 18, 7:32 AM
    • 12,680 Posts
    • 9,754 Thanks
    fatbelly
    So today I went for my appointment at the CAB. It was really positive but I am really close to the 20k limit! How did things build up to that much????
    I took all my paperwork with me so the advisor said he can get the application ready by 23rd April.
    I've signed so they can get my credit report. It wasn't anywhere near as intrusive as I thought it would be and I wasn't told I've got to rein in my spending on food to 50p a day.
    I just hope now that once I sign and pay that it gets approved. Does anyone know what percentage of DROs are rejected?
    Originally posted by Pianothing
    Thank you so much for your post Twubble.

    I really hope you're right. I had an email from the HCEOs office today telling me I have till Friday to go back to them with a new proposal or the enforcement agent will be let loose again. I think my debt advisor said I should just ignore them. I'm hoping that between Friday and Monday 23rd April they will only visit once and hopefully then my DRO will be approved within a couple of days.
    Originally posted by Pianothing
    Most DROs are approved 2 days after submission. They have just had a glitch but hopefully that was sorted yesterday. The advice on HCEOS is what I would give - ignore and avoid - if you tell them you are going to get a DRO in 2 weeks that will just make them more aggressive for 2 weeks.
    • Pianothing
    • By Pianothing 11th Apr 18, 2:14 PM
    • 27 Posts
    • 6 Thanks
    Pianothing
    Thanks everyone. I'm going to batten down the hatches for the next two weeks. Hopefully this time in two weeks my moratorium period will be starting and I can breathe a sigh of relief. I might even get some sleep that doesn't involve me falling asleep on the sofa for an hour but not being able to sleep in my bed!
    My next anxiety is that the HCEO and the claimants solicitor will try to go back to court to get permission to pursue the debt. I've read somewhere that creditors can do that but I don't know what circumstances it would be granted under. Has anyone heard of that? It sounds like the sort of rotten action the claimant would take as he's a really persistent and vindictive little man.
    • fatbelly
    • By fatbelly 11th Apr 18, 6:20 PM
    • 12,680 Posts
    • 9,754 Thanks
    fatbelly
    My next anxiety is that the HCEO and the claimants solicitor will try to go back to court to get permission to pursue the debt..
    Originally posted by Pianothing
    I'm not sure what you mean there. The creditor has a ccj against you and he has escalated it to High Court and appointed an HCEO.

    The other forms of enforcement will take time and may be impossible anyway:

    charging order
    attachment to earnings
    third party debt order
    bankruptcy
    • Pianothing
    • By Pianothing 11th Apr 18, 7:57 PM
    • 27 Posts
    • 6 Thanks
    Pianothing
    Sorry. I read that provided I haven't signed a walking possession or let the enforcement agent in, then the debt is included in the DRO. But, there are certain circumstances where a creditor can apply to the courts for permission to pursue the debt. So I guess, in essence, I wonder if he will try to get permission from the courts to 're engage the HCEO to chase me. This is all assuming my DRO is approved.
    • fatbelly
    • By fatbelly 11th Apr 18, 8:39 PM
    • 12,680 Posts
    • 9,754 Thanks
    fatbelly
    But, there are certain circumstances where a creditor can apply to the courts for permission to pursue the debt. .
    Originally posted by Pianothing
    No

    The DRO moratorium gives compete protection from qualifying debts, and this is one.

    If a debt is fraudulent, like some benefit overpayments are, then they can be pursued again after the moratorium ends.

    It should be noted that any debts incurred as a result of fraud or fraudulent breach of trust to which the debtor was a party, will not be discharged at the end of the moratorium period. The creditor will be free to pursue recovery of those debts.
    The legislation is quite clear in that no creditor with a qualifying debt has any remedy in respect of that debt. This must include the right to levy execution or distress during the moratorium period
    • Pianothing
    • By Pianothing 11th Apr 18, 9:10 PM
    • 27 Posts
    • 6 Thanks
    Pianothing
    Have a look at this link
    http://www.undebt.co.uk/faqs/

    Click on the question about creditors still chasing a Debt then click on DRO. It says there that debts can't be chased without the courts permission. Therefore I'm making the assumption that the city's can give permission. If this is not true then the statement is misleading.
    • sourcrates
    • By sourcrates 11th Apr 18, 9:25 PM
    • 15,246 Posts
    • 14,347 Thanks
    sourcrates
    Have a look at this link
    http://www.undebt.co.uk/faqs/

    Click on the question about creditors still chasing a Debt then click on DRO. It says there that debts can't be chased without the courts permission. Therefore I'm making the assumption that the city's can give permission. If this is not true then the statement is misleading.
    Originally posted by Pianothing
    The court would deny permission as they have no remedy against a qualifying debt included in a DRO.

    The law is quite clear in that respect.

    Fat belly is an intermediary, so I would rather take his advice, over something off a less than reputable debt management company web site every time.
    Last edited by sourcrates; 11-04-2018 at 11:28 PM.
    I'm a Board Guide on the Debt-Free Wannabe, Credit File And Ratings, and
    Bankruptcy And Living With It, boards. "I volunteer to help get your forum questions answered and keep the forum running smoothly".
    Board guides are not moderators and don't read every post. If you spot an abusive or illegal post then please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com. Any views are mine and not the official line of MoneySavingExpert.com.

    For free debt advice, contact either : Stepchange, National Debtline, or, CAB.
    For Free Legal advice see : http://legalbeagles.info/
    • fatbelly
    • By fatbelly 11th Apr 18, 9:55 PM
    • 12,680 Posts
    • 9,754 Thanks
    fatbelly
    Have a look at this link
    http://www.undebt.co.uk/faqs/
    Originally posted by Pianothing
    Dodgy IVA company who think the bankruptcy fee is 710. Get your advice from reputable sources.

    Edit: It's misleading to suggest they can do DROs - they are not a 'competent authority'
    • Pianothing
    • By Pianothing 12th Apr 18, 12:02 AM
    • 27 Posts
    • 6 Thanks
    Pianothing
    Wow. The internet can indeed be a dangerous place to gather advice. It seems there are charlatans at large everywhere! It's the same in my industry. Thank goodness I joined this forum.
    My research is largely slowing down now. I'm really sorry that I'm one of those that likes to know the ins and outs of everything but I work in a profession where advice is sometimes open to misinterpretation.
    I'm also starting to believe that there is a solution to my problem and I might actually be entitled to use it. I've been through a lot of self loathing and feeling that I'm a really bad person. I hate the situation I'm in but it doesn't make me bad, I just got lost along the way somewhere.
    So intermediaries have to be fair confident of a positive outcome before advising people to apply through them for a DRO? If Fatbelly is an intermediary perhaps he could comment if he gets many rejections? It doesn't seem to happen often. The intermediary I'm working with has never had one rejected he said.
    • fatbelly
    • By fatbelly 12th Apr 18, 7:52 PM
    • 12,680 Posts
    • 9,754 Thanks
    fatbelly
    I have done several hundred DROs and can only remember one application that got rejected - the client had had a DRO less than 6 years before but hadn't told me and it did not show up on his credit report.
    • Pianothing
    • By Pianothing 12th Apr 18, 11:57 PM
    • 27 Posts
    • 6 Thanks
    Pianothing
    I had a letter from my intermediary today. He has asked at our next meeting that I give him 3 months bank statements. I have already given him my pay slips as proof of income. Is he going to go through my statements line by line and want an explanation for each transaction?
    I'm also a bit worried as a family member gave me a lump sum of cash for my three dogs to be cared for while I was incapacitated with my broken pelvis. Will they expect me to have given that to my creditors? The doggy people are a limited company and I paid them by bank transfer.
    Oh this is all such a worry.
    • Pianothing
    • By Pianothing 13th Apr 18, 8:31 PM
    • 27 Posts
    • 6 Thanks
    Pianothing
    I also have a question about credit reports obtained by snail mail. Are they any different from the ones you can get from Experian and Equifax by joining a free trial on their website today. My intermediary has ordered postal ones which could take weeks. I joined a free trial and downloaded them within about half an hour. I was planning to send these to him but there seems to be little point if the ones he has requested are different in some way. Any comments gratefully received.
    • fatbelly
    • By fatbelly 13th Apr 18, 9:26 PM
    • 12,680 Posts
    • 9,754 Thanks
    fatbelly
    I also have a question about credit reports obtained by snail mail. Are they any different from the ones you can get from Experian and Equifax by joining a free trial on their website today. My intermediary has ordered postal ones which could take weeks. I joined a free trial and downloaded them within about half an hour. I was planning to send these to him but there seems to be little point if the ones he has requested are different in some way. Any comments gratefully received.
    Originally posted by Pianothing
    They contain the same information but are presented a little differently
    • sourcrates
    • By sourcrates 13th Apr 18, 10:39 PM
    • 15,246 Posts
    • 14,347 Thanks
    sourcrates
    I had a letter from my intermediary today. He has asked at our next meeting that I give him 3 months bank statements. I have already given him my pay slips as proof of income. Is he going to go through my statements line by line and want an explanation for each transaction?
    I'm also a bit worried as a family member gave me a lump sum of cash for my three dogs to be cared for while I was incapacitated with my broken pelvis. Will they expect me to have given that to my creditors? The doggy people are a limited company and I paid them by bank transfer.
    Oh this is all such a worry.
    Originally posted by Pianothing
    No they will not go into every detail do not worry.
    I'm a Board Guide on the Debt-Free Wannabe, Credit File And Ratings, and
    Bankruptcy And Living With It, boards. "I volunteer to help get your forum questions answered and keep the forum running smoothly".
    Board guides are not moderators and don't read every post. If you spot an abusive or illegal post then please report it to forumteam@moneysavingexpert.com. Any views are mine and not the official line of MoneySavingExpert.com.

    For free debt advice, contact either : Stepchange, National Debtline, or, CAB.
    For Free Legal advice see : http://legalbeagles.info/
    • Pianothing
    • By Pianothing 13th Apr 18, 10:58 PM
    • 27 Posts
    • 6 Thanks
    Pianothing
    Thank you Fatbelly. So do you think it's worth sending the reports I downloaded?

    The CAB could save a fortune by not sending everything through the post. I guess as many of the advisors are older, retired people, they aren't perhaps as computer literate.

    It's a little frustrating. Patience is not a quality I have in abundance.
    • fatbelly
    • By fatbelly 14th Apr 18, 7:52 AM
    • 12,680 Posts
    • 9,754 Thanks
    fatbelly
    Thank you Fatbelly. So do you think it's worth sending the reports I downloaded?

    The CAB could save a fortune by not sending everything through the post. I guess as many of the advisors are older, retired people, they aren't perhaps as computer literate.

    It's a little frustrating. Patience is not a quality I have in abundance.
    Originally posted by Pianothing
    Yes - send them

    That's not the reason for using post. Email is classed as an insecure medium, post is not. I know that's rubbish, if you choose to email relevant information to them that's fine.
    • Pianothing
    • By Pianothing 14th Apr 18, 7:01 PM
    • 27 Posts
    • 6 Thanks
    Pianothing
    Brilliant. Thank you for coming back to me. I'll send them over tomorrow/Monday:-)
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