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    • wymondham
    • By wymondham 30th May 19, 9:24 AM
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    wymondham
    Quandry over care/maintenance!
    • #1
    • 30th May 19, 9:24 AM
    Quandry over care/maintenance! 30th May 19 at 9:24 AM
    Hi all

    I hope you can help me with a decision!

    My mother has gone into care as she has Alzheimer's, leaving her home with her partner living in it. She is self funding in the home as she saved all her life.

    My quandary is that her house is in a bit of state and could do with a new bathroom/kitchen as its not been done since being built in the 80's and its falling apart.

    I have Deputyship for her affairs and I'm tempted to divert some of her money to maintain her house. My concern is this reduces her capital for care...….. catch 22!

    I'd be interested in views on this....
    Last edited by wymondham; 30-05-2019 at 9:29 AM.
Page 1
    • Farway
    • By Farway 30th May 19, 2:00 PM
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    Farway
    • #2
    • 30th May 19, 2:00 PM
    • #2
    • 30th May 19, 2:00 PM
    Personally I'd leave it alone, given her condition she is unlikely to be able to go home again, and as you infer she would be better spending the money on her care than a shiny kitchen she will never see or use


    And it may be seen by LA as deprivation of assets so I'd check that out as well
    • agrinnall
    • By agrinnall 30th May 19, 2:42 PM
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    agrinnall
    • #3
    • 30th May 19, 2:42 PM
    • #3
    • 30th May 19, 2:42 PM
    Does her partner have an interest in the house? And do they have any money themselves to pay for maintenance?
    • wymondham
    • By wymondham 30th May 19, 7:39 PM
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    wymondham
    • #4
    • 30th May 19, 7:39 PM
    • #4
    • 30th May 19, 7:39 PM
    Does her partner have an interest in the house? And do they have any money themselves to pay for maintenance?
    Originally posted by agrinnall
    No the house is my Mums. Her partner pays bills only...
    • elsien
    • By elsien 30th May 19, 7:48 PM
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    elsien
    • #5
    • 30th May 19, 7:48 PM
    • #5
    • 30th May 19, 7:48 PM
    Essential maintenance and repairs would be fine.
    I think you'd be stretching it to pay for a new kitchen and bathroom when she's not going to benefit from it, unless you were doing it up to rent out.
    How old is the partner and what are their plans moving forwards - they must know they're not going to be able to stay indefinitely. Was your mum able to express any thoughts about the partner staying on while she still had capacity? I'm wondering if you're going to find yourselves as his landlord, inadvertently or otherwise?
    All shall be well, and all shall be well, and all manner of things shall be well.

    Pedant alert - it's could have, not could of.
    • wymondham
    • By wymondham 31st May 19, 9:19 AM
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    wymondham
    • #6
    • 31st May 19, 9:19 AM
    • #6
    • 31st May 19, 9:19 AM
    Essential maintenance and repairs would be fine.
    I think you'd be stretching it to pay for a new kitchen and bathroom when she's not going to benefit from it, unless you were doing it up to rent out.
    How old is the partner and what are their plans moving forwards - they must know they're not going to be able to stay indefinitely. Was your mum able to express any thoughts about the partner staying on while she still had capacity? I'm wondering if you're going to find yourselves as his landlord, inadvertently or otherwise?
    Originally posted by elsien
    thanks for the reply. Partner is 75, mum didn't really make any plans which is difficult... Partner has no plans to move and we are happy he stays to look after the house. As I'm aware as he's also elderly the house cant be sold...
    • agrinnall
    • By agrinnall 31st May 19, 12:08 PM
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    agrinnall
    • #7
    • 31st May 19, 12:08 PM
    • #7
    • 31st May 19, 12:08 PM
    As I'm aware as he's also elderly the house cant be sold...
    Originally posted by wymondham

    I'm not sure that's legally correct, but morally, yes. The thing is, if he stays then as Deputy I think you become his LL, so it may be that you will need to do some maintenance to keep the property at a suitable standard, and also to make sure it doesn't deteriorate too much before you are able to sell.



    I'd suggest that you might want to post this on the Housing board to get views there on what you should and shouldn't do.
    • Mojisola
    • By Mojisola 31st May 19, 12:13 PM
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    Mojisola
    • #8
    • 31st May 19, 12:13 PM
    • #8
    • 31st May 19, 12:13 PM
    I'm not sure that's legally correct
    Originally posted by agrinnall
    It is - the value of the house won't be taken into account in the financial assessment while a spouse/partner still lives there.
    • crv1963
    • By crv1963 2nd Jun 19, 10:34 AM
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    crv1963
    • #9
    • 2nd Jun 19, 10:34 AM
    • #9
    • 2nd Jun 19, 10:34 AM
    Does her partner do any of the jobs needed to keep the house in a reasonable state?

    Kitchens and bathrooms as long as they function can be as dated or old fashioned as the person living with them likes. The important thing that needs doing is getting things like gas appliances and boilers checked annually.

    I wouldn't divert capital for items that are not a must have and that she will not benefit from.
    CRV1963- Light bulb moment Sept 15- Planning the great escape- aka retirement!
    • tacpot12
    • By tacpot12 2nd Jun 19, 1:15 PM
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    tacpot12
    I think there is a case that doing essential maintenance on the house is in your mother's best interests. Such maintenance will preserve the value of her home which could be important if she lives a long time and her savings are exhausted.

    However, where kitchens and bathrooms are concerned essential maintenance would not require replacement unless the items really were falling apart. I would suggest you take photos as evidence of why the kitchen and bathroom cannot be repaired. My experience is that most kitchen units can be repaired many times before they reach a stage where replacement is necessary.

    In the bathroom, the bath, toilet or sink would need to have holes in them before their replacement was necessary.

    If her partner was able to contribute to the replacement in order to get a better design or quality item then I would ask for them to contribute and keep records of what they paid for vs. what your mother paid for. If the partner has no financial interest in the house, they probably won't want to contribute to any essential work.
    The comments I post are my personal opinion. While I try to check everything is correct before posting, I can and do make mistakes, so always check official information sources before relying on my posts.
    • Sea Shell
    • By Sea Shell 2nd Jun 19, 1:29 PM
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    Sea Shell
    I'd have thought they'd be at least some leeway over doing more than the bare minimum by way of repairs, as if the property did need to be sold to pay for longer term care, then you'd get a much better price than one that's on its last legs.

    I'd also take into consideration what funds she has v. any maintenance/repair budget.

    Spending £1000 to gain £5000 could, depending on circumstances, actually be in their best interest. Surely that's still acting as any prudent person would do?
    " That pound I saved yesterday, is a pound I don't have to earn tomorrow " JOB DONE!!
    This should now read "It's time to start digging up those Squirrelled Nuts"!!!
    • Wicked Lady
    • By Wicked Lady 3rd Jun 19, 4:13 PM
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    Wicked Lady
    You don't give your mother's age but why don't you do the sums and see how many years her savings can pay for at the current rate, bearing in mind you can ask for an assessment once you approach the point when there is £23,250 left?

    That might give you a clearer picture of how much money there is to play with.
    • wymondham
    • By wymondham 4th Jun 19, 2:36 PM
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    wymondham
    You don't give your mother's age but why don't you do the sums and see how many years her savings can pay for at the current rate, bearing in mind you can ask for an assessment once you approach the point when there is £23,250 left?

    That might give you a clearer picture of how much money there is to play with.
    Originally posted by Wicked Lady
    Mum is 79 and her care home costs are £3850 per month - it'll take until next March before she gets to the £23k limit.....

    thanks for all the replies, much appreciated!
    • Savvy_Sue
    • By Savvy_Sue 4th Jun 19, 9:46 PM
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    Savvy_Sue
    Mum is 79 and her care home costs are £3850 per month - it'll take until next March before she gets to the £23k limit.....
    Originally posted by wymondham
    That doesn't sound like that long ...

    I would definitely get some advice from AgeUK or similar, because you need to be very sure what's going to happen when she gets to that limit. Will she be able to stay in her current care home, with a charge being put against her house? Or will there be pressure to move her ...
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    • Alfrescodave
    • By Alfrescodave 7th Jun 19, 4:02 PM
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    Alfrescodave
    That doesn't sound like that long ...

    I would definitely get some advice from AgeUK or similar, because you need to be very sure what's going to happen when she gets to that limit. Will she be able to stay in her current care home, with a charge being put against her house? Or will there be pressure to move her ...
    Originally posted by Savvy_Sue
    I agree with your comment about obtaining advice, certainly now rather than next March.
    I would be asking the Local Authority what their proposed monetary input would be and whether or not they would continue to support the current approx £1000 per week cost or would they be looking to move her to a more "affordable" care home.
    • wymondham
    • By wymondham 24th Jun 19, 10:59 AM
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    wymondham
    Thanks for the advice. When we looked around for care homes locally we didn't come across any that were less than this one so not sure where she could be moved to?
    • Keep pedalling
    • By Keep pedalling 24th Jun 19, 11:23 AM
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    Keep pedalling
    I'd have thought they'd be at least some leeway over doing more than the bare minimum by way of repairs, as if the property did need to be sold to pay for longer term care, then you'd get a much better price than one that's on its last legs.

    I'd also take into consideration what funds she has v. any maintenance/repair budget.

    Spending £1000 to gain £5000 could, depending on circumstances, actually be in their best interest. Surely that's still acting as any prudent person would do?
    Originally posted by Sea Shell
    As her partner still lives in the house it will not need to be sold, so that kind of spending cannot be regarded as in her best interest and is likely to be treated as deliberate deprivation of assets especially with savings that will only last 9 more months.

    Does your mother have a will in place and does it give her partner the right to continue to live in it after her death?
    Last edited by Keep pedalling; 24-06-2019 at 11:26 AM.
    • wymondham
    • By wymondham 24th Jun 19, 5:21 PM
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    wymondham
    As her partner still lives in the house it will not need to be sold, so that kind of spending cannot be regarded as in her best interest and is likely to be treated as deliberate deprivation of assets especially with savings that will only last 9 more months.

    Does your mother have a will in place and does it give her partner the right to continue to live in it after her death?
    Originally posted by Keep pedalling
    thanks, no her will is for the house to be divided between us three (children). We are more than happy that he stay in the house though...
    • Keep pedalling
    • By Keep pedalling 25th Jun 19, 1:26 PM
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    Keep pedalling
    thanks, no her will is for the house to be divided between us three (children). We are more than happy that he stay in the house though...
    Originally posted by wymondham
    In that case you may wish to consider making a deed of variation to give him a lifetime interest. This will give him added security in that he canít be made homeless if you or one of your siblings got into financial difficulties or died prematurely.

    It would also prevent you becoming an accidental landlord with all that entails, and it would avoid any capital gains liability when the house is eventually sold.
    • Browntoa
    • By Browntoa 27th Jun 19, 11:22 AM
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    Browntoa
    If you are running her affairs with a LPA then you must do so in her best interests. I suspect using money for a new kitchen unless it's absolutely necessary would not be considered as in her best interests
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