Cheap calls though 18185 - experiences please?

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  • brewerdave
    brewerdave Posts: 8,507 Forumite
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    edited 25 October 2015 at 9:34AM
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    Just received my latest invoice from 18185 for payment - covers the last four months.
    I can confirm that they have only applied a 4p connection charge to all calls I've made since 28th September, when the increased time charge started.
  • Heinz
    Heinz Posts: 11,191 Forumite
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    edited 25 October 2015 at 11:00AM
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    brewerdave wrote: »
    Just received my latest invoice from 18185 for payment - covers the last four months.
    I can confirm that they have only applied a 4p connection charge to all calls I've made since 28th September, when the increased time charge started.
    If they have decreased the connection charge from 5p to 4p for UK calls (my unbilled Itemised Calls list appears to bear that out too), they haven't updated their website yet:

    http://18185.co.uk/rates.php

    http://18185.co.uk/rates_printer.php
    Time has moved on (much quicker than it used to - or so it seems at my age) and my previous advice on residential telephony has been or is now gradually being overtaken by changes in the retail market. Hence, I have now deleted links to my previous 'pearls of wisdom'. I sincerely hope they helped save some of you money.
  • Ian011
    Ian011 Posts: 2,432 Forumite
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    If you're in contact with them, perhaps also ask them what their Access Charge for calls to 084 and 087 numbers is. So far, they haven't published this information.
  • sue.b_2
    sue.b_2 Posts: 105 Forumite
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    I have tried searching this forum but no luck. I use 18185 for all my calls. I am thinking of changing to EE so I rang their helpline to make sure that I could continue to do so if I switched. The person I spoke to had never heard of override providers so consulted colleagues then came back and told me they had never heard of it either and believed it would not be supported.
    Does anyone have experience using 18185 or similar with EE?
  • Ian011
    Ian011 Posts: 2,432 Forumite
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    edited 8 November 2015 at 11:11AM
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    If it doesn't work by dialling 18185 in front of the number that you want to call, they do have other ways to access their system. This includes calling an 080 number. Calls made this way are charged at a slightly higher rate as 18185 has to compensate the caller's landline or mobile provider for the fact that the caller paid them nothing for the call to the 080 number.



    See also
    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5219071
  • sue.b_2
    sue.b_2 Posts: 105 Forumite
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    Thanks Ian011. I was aware of that number and have used it on rare occasions when away from home. I find 18185 much easier. It seems I will have to stay with my old provider although I will try to negotiate a good deal. I have been very successful in the past.
  • System
    System Posts: 178,093 Community Admin
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    sue.b wrote: »
    Does anyone have experience using 18185 or similar with EE?
    We have been with EE for 12 months. So far, 18185 works for us. On our exchange (central Oxford) EE is just re-selling the standard BT Wholesale offering. I don't know whether EE does that on all exchanges. I guess (but don't know) that BT Wholesale's standard offering will go on allowing indirect access numbers. I also guess (but don't know) that it is up to individual re-sellers (including BT Retail, or whatever it's called this month) whether they continue to allow indirect access. Meanwhile, BT is about to absorb EE, and will then, presumably, dictate policy on everything, including indirect access.

    It's fairly easy, I think, to find home phones that will automatically prefix specified numbers with 0808 1703703 pause, or 020 8180 2828 pause. You can thus get calls painlessly routed via Finarea, even if EE does withdraw indirect access. Eventually, Finarea's - I suspect - single part-time manager will presumably notice that he is losing money on calls via the 0808 number, and drop it. However, it took him many months to notice that he was (from 1 July 2015) losing money on calls to 0845 and 0870 numbers.
  • Ian011
    Ian011 Posts: 2,432 Forumite
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    edited 9 November 2015 at 7:59PM
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    YoungNick wrote: »
    Eventually, Finarea's - I suspect - single part-time manager will presumably notice that he is losing money on calls via the 0808 number, and drop it.
    On calls to 0800 and 0808 numbers, Finerea is paid a "Call Origination Fee" by the organisation that you are calling. This compensates them for the fact that the caller paid nothing for the call.
    YoungNick wrote: »
    However, it took him many months to notice that he was (from 1 July 2015) losing money on calls to 0845 and 0870 numbers.
    Finarea appears to be charging 7p per minute for calls to all 084 numbers and 13p per minute for calls to all 087 numbers. As such this does not comply with Ofcom's General Condition 17. This requires declaration of a single Access Charge for those numbers and call charges comprising that Access Charge plus the Service Charge as declared by the called party.
  • System
    System Posts: 178,093 Community Admin
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    edited 11 November 2015 at 10:13AM
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    Ian011 wrote: »
    On calls to 0800 and 0808 numbers, Finerea is paid a "Call Origination Fee" by the organisation that you are calling. This compensates them for the fact that the caller paid nothing for the call.
    Surely all owners of 080 numbers are now paying a lot to the provider of the number? I don't think Finarea can be making enough from its customers to pay its bill to the provider of its 0808 number. On the other hand, Finarea possibly gets a small payment from the provider of its 020 number, out of the small termination fee paid to Finarea's provider by Finarea's customers' originating providers, for each call to the 020 number?
    Finarea appears to be charging 7p per minute for calls to all 084 numbers and 13p per minute for calls to all 087 numbers. As such this does not comply with Ofcom's General Condition 17. This requires declaration of a single Access Charge for those numbers and call charges comprising that Access Charge plus the Service Charge as declared by the called party.
    The deal Finarea is offering is "7p/min for our access charge plus the service charge to any 084 number, and you don't need to know the split, because 7p is a bargain." I rather hope that Ofcom doesn't bother to intervene. (Just as they haven't intervened over Finarea's decision not to join a dispute resolution scheme.)
  • Ian011
    Ian011 Posts: 2,432 Forumite
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    edited 13 November 2015 at 3:38PM
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    YoungNick wrote: »
    The deal Finarea is offering is "7p/min for our access charge plus the service charge to any 084 number, and you don't need to know the split, because 7p is a bargain." I rather hope that Ofcom doesn't bother to intervene. (Just as they haven't intervened over Finarea's decision not to join a dispute resolution scheme.)
    Yes, the deal appears to be, on 084 numbers...
    - 6p/min Access Charge on calls with 1p/min Service Charge
    - 5p/min Access Charge on calls with 2p/min Service Charge
    through to
    - 1p/min Access Charge on calls with 6p/min Service Charge
    - 0p/min Access Charge on calls with 7p/min Service Charge

    and, on 087 numbers...
    - 12p/min Access Charge on calls with 1p/min Service Charge
    - 11p/min Access Charge on calls with 2p/min Service Charge
    through to
    - 1p/min Access Charge on calls with 12p/min Service Charge
    - 0p/min Access Charge on calls with 13p/min Service Charge.

    If 18185 were intending to set a low rate, then a 2p per minute Access Charge would suffice, meaning the cost of calls to all 084 numbers with a Service Charge less than 5p per minute would decrease as would the cost of calls to all 087 numbers with a Service Charge less than 10p per minute.

    There would be a 1p per minute rise on calls to 084 numbers with a 6p per minute Service Charge and on calls to 087 numbers with a 12p per minute Service Charge.

    There would be a 2p per minute rise on calls to 084 numbers with a 7p per minute Service Charge and on calls to 087 numbers with a 13p per minute Service Charge.
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