help please with Universal Wealth preservation Trust

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  • fergies_army
    fergies_army Posts: 110
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    edited 16 March 2017 at 9:49AM
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    Its unlikely the police would be interested, long and short is that the property had been placed into their name as a trustee, they havnt stolen it in the definition of the theft act (however morally they have)they clearly havnt acted in the interest of the beneficiary which would be a breach of the trust act 2000 which isn't a police matter.

    Don't worry I will be travelling the country to every seminar!!! :)
  • Malthusian
    Malthusian Posts: 10,857
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    @fergies_army: It seems clear that your mother has gifted the house to a trust. But you said "she had to sell" the property. If she gifted the house to a trust the house was no longer hers to sell. Who actually signed the paperwork selling the house to the new owners?

    Proving fraud would be difficult. That's not to say that there is no fraud, or even that it's not obvious there is a fraud, but it is always difficult to prove. The Trustee Act route may be more useful as it allows trustees to be removed if they are unfit - but you said she is taking legal advice and her solicitors will be able to advise her on that.

    Let us know how you get on at the seminars, I understand the next one is in Shrewsbury on Valentine's Day.
  • Thanks Malthusian ..... I agree with you hence why it hasn't been reported to the Police as others have suggested above for the reasons you outline.
  • I posted as Athenaia2016:

    I applied to the Trustees (Melanie and Steve Long) to have my parent's Trusts wound up several months ago and have been given the run around by them. Last month I was advised in writing that Steven Long was seriously ill. However I have also been advised by another Trust beneficiary in a similar situation that he is in another country.

    The advice from the person advising you to review the Deeds and other Trust documentation is correct. My parent's Trusts are Asset Trusts which if wound up the assets will transfer to a Discretionary Trust.

    The setting up of Trust is a restricted activity and should only be set up by lawyers however there appears to be little enforcement of this by the Law Society and STEP appear to mainly a training organisation rather than regulatory. The FCA are also unable to help. I got to Xmas with the sense of absolute helplessness. My parent's intention in placing their lifetime home in a Trust was "to protect it and keep it in the family for their children & grandchildren". That is not the outcome. Not only are the Trustees failing to protect the asset as they are required i.e. Maintenance, charges etc (they have been formally advised of this) but they are not acting professionally in their dealings.
  • Doc_N
    Doc_N Posts: 8,266
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    That's a dreadful situation, shortcroft - and not an easy one to resolve.

    There's no simple way of challenging the activities of trustees, and you'd almost certainly need legal assistance to do it. That would very likely be expensive (we're talking senior legal staff here at upwards of £200 per hour) with no certainty whatever of success, or getting costs back.

    I think in this situation I'd be trying to get Watchdog, You and Yours, or Moneybox (BBC TV and Radio 4) involved. They could be interested in a story, if enough people are involved, and quite often in situations like this they can achieve positive outcomes for the originators of the story simply by the publicity involved.
  • le_loup
    le_loup Posts: 4,047 Forumite
    Is there a household insurance policy that may cover legal costs?
  • After an hours discussion with a litigation lawyer at £300 + VAT it became apparent that to pursue them through the courts is not an option at an estimate of £30-70k and no guarantee of success. It is also moot whether the costs could be offset against the estate that falls outside of the Trusts otherwise this is a cost that would need to be personally bourne. This was also confirmed by a friend who was a Trust lawyer.

    I will be writing to Paul Lewis of BBC Moneybox as well as a QC that was asked to review the miss selling of Trusts in 2014. With the latter I have been unable to locate any information on the outcome of the review.

    For the want of £200-300 worth of advice from a Trust lawyer a decision to go to an unregulated organisation to place your family home under the control of others is bluntly very foolish. I understand how they persuade people with fear but always step back before you sign anything and get independent, professional advice. It is your right. And if you are feeling pressured (one lady told me that after several hours and being told it was a "no brainer") by them even more so as no decent organisation will use those tactics. The cost otherwise is considerable.
  • Doc_N
    Doc_N Posts: 8,266
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    edited 16 March 2017 at 9:47AM
    Paul Lewis is an excellent starting point - it's a subject he's well aware of and it could provide the seed for a major story. That could be helpful to you.

    I have attended one of their seminars (curiosity, really, after seeing one of these threads) and I can understand how people could be taken in. It all sounds very plausible, and a lot of what they say is legally correct and based on sound principles. There was nothing challengeable (or I would have challenged it) and nothing particularly controversial.

    All pretty much standard IHT/Nursing Home avoidance tactics, much of which would probably achieve the desired end if done at the right time.

    There was no suggestion, though, that they would be using their own people as trustees. The assumption I made, perhaps wrongly, was that trusted family members would be the trustees.

    {Text removed by MSE Investigator}
  • Most of the comments about the fact that the assets are the trustees' are correct, so calling in the police when a trustee can say he is fulfilling his legal duties is not going to be a quick solution. However, most trust deeds allow the person who set the trust up or the beneficiaries to replace the trustees. If this is so, your mum should ask the current trustees to resign, appoint new trustees - this can be your mum and yourself if you wish - and ask the previous trustee to transfer the trust assets to the new trustee. This can be done at a reasonable cost with a solicitor who understands trust law. The assets then don't belong to the old trustees but to the new. If the transfer of assets to the new trustees doesn't happen - then I think that you have more of a reason to involve the authorities
  • jimjames
    jimjames Posts: 17,515
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    Has anyone received contact about this thread? It appears that even if the people behind it are out of the country and supposedly uncontactable that they are still able to get in touch by email.
    Remember the saying: if it looks too good to be true it almost certainly is.
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