Opinions on forking out on a PCP deal?
Comments
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"It's true that there are people out there who decide they want a 30k car when based on their income and expenditure they should really be looking at the 3-5k used market but this is a symptom of a person living beyond their means, not any inherent problem with PCP or other forms of car finance."
Surely a PCP on a car is just a rental deal like a flat or anything else ? It has nothing to do with the actual purchase price.
It won't be long before we just pay for cars by the mile.
If someone does the maths in terms of income and expenditure its up to them. I would argue that someone buying a car outright following a windfall is more living beyond their means as when they want to replace it they will be unable to afford the replacement ?
someone has to buy overpriced new cars otherwise where would all the 5-10 year old bargains come from ?
+1
Wholly agree.0 -
NaughtiusMaximus wrote: »It is, but my point is there are plenty of people who choose to fork out £200+ per month on a PCP deal when they really can't afford to.
And who are you to decide affordability?NaughtiusMaximus wrote: »
Depends on the circumstances. If someone has always bought older used cars but following a windfall decides to treat themselves to a new of nearly new car as a one off (ie they will go back to buying older cars when this one is worn out) it's not living beyond your means.
It is that according to you they should have done something else with their money to better their lives rather than putting it in to a car?
Whats the difference between buying a car with cars for £30,000 new, running it for say twelve years and it being worthless and PCPing / leasing / renting 4 cars for three years at a time at £200 dd a month?
Heres a shocker - cars depreciate no matter how you pay for them.0 -
And who are you to decide affordability?
Basic common sense. If someone takes out a PCP deal but then needs to rely on credit cards to cover their basic monthly expenditure, they can't afford it.It is that according to you they should have done something else with their money to better their lives rather than putting it in to a car?
Where did I say that?Whats the difference between buying a car with cars for £30,000 new, running it for say twelve years and it being worthless and PCPing / leasing / renting 4 cars for three years at a time at £200 dd a month?
It's personal choice, nothing more. This was in response to a previous comment that buying a new car with a windfall equates to living beyond your means, which if it's a one off it clearly doesn't.
You seem to have got it into your head that I'm of the view that lease or PCP=bad, ownership=good which I'm not. If you want a brand new car every X years AND CAN AFFORD IT then PCP or lease is the best option. My point is that there are a lot of people who take out PCP or lease deals they can't afford, as evidenced by posts on debt advice boards here and on other forums. That doesn't mean there's anything wrong with PCP per se just that it's not right for everyone0 -
And can equally be a sign that people simply want to budget a set amount monthly, based on the fact they get paid monthly and all their other bills are monthly too.
Yes it could, all depends on individual circumstances.And who said that £30,000 was typical? Most new Fiestas, Focus, Astras, Golfs, Corsas are bought on these deals.
It was an example.Maybe these people dont have to eke out a living and can afford nice holidays etc without killing themselves to do it. Sorry if you cant.
What makes you think I can't?0 -
NaughtiusMaximus wrote: »Basic common sense. If someone takes out a PCP deal but then needs to rely on credit cards to cover their basic monthly expenditure, they can't afford it.
And where did you get that notion from? Again, do you know everyones finances or are you simply assuming because it helps you justify your skewed view?NaughtiusMaximus wrote: »
Where did I say that?
Here - "It's true that there are people out there who decide they want a 30k car when based on their income and expenditure they should really be looking at the 3-5k used market but this is a symptom of a person living beyond their means, not any inherent problem with PCP or other forms of car finance."
Because presumably if someone gets an inheritance and spends it on say a £30K car then by the very definition above, they're living beyond their means?NaughtiusMaximus wrote: »
It's personal choice, nothing more. This was in response to a previous comment that buying a new car with a windfall equates to living beyond your means, which if it's a one off it clearly doesn't.
By your very definition - "there are people out there who decide they want a 30k car when based on their income and expenditure they should really be looking at the 3-5k used market" if someone gets a cash windfall then spends it on a £30K car then they are doing what you seem to be so against?NaughtiusMaximus wrote: »
You seem to have got it into your head that I'm of the view that lease or PCP=bad, ownership=good which I'm not. If you want a brand new car every X years AND CAN AFFORD IT then PCP or lease is the best option. My point is that there are a lot of people who take out PCP or lease deals they can't afford, as evidenced by posts on debt advice boards here and on other forums. That doesn't mean there's anything wrong with PCP per se just that it's not right for everyone
If thats what you're saying then fine, however the language you've been using suggests you have deemed that people cant afford a car if they've it on PCP.
Even in that paragraph you're making sweeping people that "a lot of people take on PCP deals they cant afford as evidenced by the posts on debt advice boards here" - when frankly there are very few related to PCP.0 -
NaughtiusMaximus wrote: »Yes it could, all depends on individual circumstances.
It does yes. And i would say those personal circumstances of being convenient for most people are much more prevalent than "oh i cant afford a new car but must have one to impress the neighbours" or whatever.NaughtiusMaximus wrote: »
It was an example.
And an example skewed to make your point.NaughtiusMaximus wrote: »
What makes you think I can't?
Well your view on whether others can "afford" something seems to be based on your own subjective view, so just turning that around - maybe others can afford to do both - have a nice lifestyle AND not be living on credit to do so?0 -
And where did you get that notion from? Again, do you know everyones finances or are you simply assuming because it helps you justify your skewed view?
Do you seriously believe there aren't people out there who take out credit they can't afford to pay back?Here - "It's true that there are people out there who decide they want a 30k car when based on their income and expenditure they should really be looking at the 3-5k used market but this is a symptom of a person living beyond their means, not any inherent problem with PCP or other forms of car finance."
The section you quoted relates to buying luxuries you can't afford, do you disagree with the assertion that paying essential monthly outgoings like food and bills is less important than a new car?Because presumably if someone gets an inheritance and spends it on say a £30K car then by the very definition above, they're living beyond their means?
If you have an unexpected 30k windfall, spending it however you like as a one off isn't living beyond your means as you've already budgeted on the assumption you don't have that cash.If thats what you're saying then fine, however the language you've been using suggests you have deemed that people cant afford a car if they've it on PCP.
Fair enough, maybe I should have qualified my initial comment by saying 'there are SOME people who....."Even in that paragraph you're making sweeping people that "a lot of people take on PCP deals they cant afford as evidenced by the posts on debt advice boards here" - when frankly there are very few related to PCP.
You missed the last bit of my quote ".....on debt advice boards here and on other forums". I have noticed PCP or other forms of car finance crop up quite a few times over the years.0 -
It does yes. And i would say those personal circumstances of being convenient for most people are much more prevalent than "oh i cant afford a new car but must have one to impress the neighbours" or whatever.
Agreed, I'm not denying the majority of those who take out PCP or lease can afford it but I do believe there are also a significant minority who fall into the latter category.And an example skewed to make your point.
It's actually an example of someone I work with. I know exactly how much he's paid and I know where he lives so can take a pretty good guess as to his monthly rent payments.Well your view on whether others can "afford" something seems to be based on your own subjective view, so just turning that around - maybe others can afford to do both - have a nice lifestyle AND not be living on credit to do so?
Some can afford both, some can't. Where I think yours and my opinions on this differ are in the proportions of people who fall into each category, in truth neither of us, or probably anyone else, really knows the true answer to that.0 -
NaughtiusMaximus wrote: »Do you seriously believe there aren't people out there who take out credit they can't afford to pay back?
Of course there are!
However they are not as prevalent as what is insinuated by yourself and others.NaughtiusMaximus wrote: »
The section you quoted relates to buying luxuries you can't afford, do you disagree with the assertion that paying essential monthly outgoings like food and bills is less important than a new car?
No, and i never said otherwise. It was you who suggested there were people who did.NaughtiusMaximus wrote: »
If you have an unexpected 30k windfall, spending it however you like as a one off isn't living beyond your means as you've already budgeted on the assumption you don't have that cash.
So to clarify - someone who has a £30K cash windfall can "afford" that car and associated depreciation towards zero, but someone who does so by PCPing several cars over the same timefame cant?NaughtiusMaximus wrote: »
You missed the last bit of my quote ".....on debt advice boards here and on other forums". I have noticed PCP or other forms of car finance crop up quite a few times over the years.
And with 3.8 million new cars sold every year, thats your basis for that being a significant amount is it?
And by all means, link us to a site whereby there are rampant amounts of people saying that PCPing a car put them in debt that they cant afford, that amounts to a a meaningful statistic relative to cars sold?0 -
NaughtiusMaximus wrote: »Agreed, I'm not denying the majority of those who take out PCP or lease can afford it but I do believe there are also a significant minority who fall into the latter category.
You've no evidence of it being a "significant" minority.
I would put it at maybe 2-3% tops. Bearing in mind said cars would then be repossessed, i've never seen numbers in my days in motor trading or through my trade contacts as being more than that.
Its certainly not a number like 30% that are repossessed - not a mission the finance companies could support a model with those sorts of numbers or anywhere near them.NaughtiusMaximus wrote: »It's actually an example of someone I work with. I know exactly how much he's paid and I know where he lives so can take a pretty good guess as to his monthly rent payments.
Ah ok - so you're example from a sample size of 1 proves your point then does it?NaughtiusMaximus wrote: »
Some can afford both, some can't. Where I think yours and my opinions on this differ are in the proportions of people who fall into each category, in truth neither of us, or probably anyone else, really knows the true answer to that.
True, thus why its important not to broad brush people as "not being able to afford it" when you've clearly no clue of what percentage that is.0
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