Retirement benefits statement? whats best??

paul_hannah
paul_hannah Posts: 14 Forumite
Firstly, many thanks to those who "Educated "me on the GMP, very much appreciated!
Ive received my three options for taking my pension from the JLT .I'LL list the three options.

Option 1 is Combined tax free lump sum £83k and reduced annual pension of £12k which includes a pension savings from an AVC account.
Option 2 is Defined benefit tax free lump sum of £72k a reduced annual pension and pension £10k savings in addition.
Option 3 is a full defined benefit pension £14k and pension savings in addition.
in each case, the pension savings from AVC's is £40,0000
Im thick when it comes to pensions, and im aware i should be asking JTL any clarification i need, but they are painfully slow at replying, two weeks is about normal, 10 days is the very best ive ever had from them.
Option one is the only option that doesn't say "Defined benefits" so is a bad option? its the one pushing a big tax free lump sum.
I like option 3 as its a bigger pension, but the AVC (pension savings) is in addition so i presume the first 25% tax free, then taxed to death on the remaining 75%?
Could i choose option one, reduce the lump sum from the max 25% to increase the annual pension, and still have a decent lump sum.( my thoughts were to up the annual pension and still be able to take a tax free cash lump sum that wouldn't be taxed as the AVC would)
I intend to keep on working, and would need some lump sum to help my daughter onto the property ladder.
Im taking my pension early as my wife is terminally ill and will need me home as her condition deteriorates, plus im very unsure on my companies future.
Thanks in advance:T
«1

Comments

  • Yes, i did, but im sorted on the GMP, i understand that part now, this is s separate question about the three options i have in front of me.
    It may seem simple to you, but i thought that was what this forum was for? help for the 98% of us who don't find this simple?
    As mentioned, my wife is seriously ill,I work very long hours, i need care arranged for my wife when im not there, we have doctors appointments and hospital appointments that can happen without much notice.
    I don't want a home visit from a financial adviser talking pensions in front of my wife who simply wont be here to enjoy any retirement or pension.
    I thank you for your time, but id appreciate any other experts who would be willing to shed light on my three options to help out.
  • Linton
    Linton Posts: 17,115 Forumite
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    Its not 100% clear to me what the options mean - are they quoted word for word from the documentation you were given? For example Option 2 doesnt say what the reduced pension is, perhaps its the same as Option 1.

    I assume:

    Option 1 means £10K (25%) tax free lump sum from AVC and £72K tax free lump sum from DB pension leaving you with £30K AVC and a £12K pension.
    Option 2 means the same as Option 1 but you dont crystalise the AVC.
    Option 3 means you dont take a DB pension lump sum and you dont crystalise the AVC.

    Comparing Option 2 and Option3 indicates a £2K pension is worth £72K. This seems a fair choice to me, but taking tax into consideration it would probably favour taking the lump sum. The final choice must be on which is most important to you - an extra lump sum cash now or a lifelong guaranteed inflation adjusted £2K/year. Whether you take the lump sum from the AVC now or perhaps transfer the whole AVC into a SIPP is a secondary detail.
  • Suffolk_lass
    Suffolk_lass Posts: 9,332 Forumite
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    I am so sorry for your wife's condition. It really is so difficult for us to advise you on these threads - our help tends to revolve around making you aware of some of the technicalities and trying to explain things win plain english of we can help in that respect.

    I will try and set out what I would be taking into consideration if I were in your position.

    First and foremost, is your wife claiming the benefits she is entitled to, to help pay for care for herself? My Sister was talking about this yesterday in relation to a relative who is too proud to claim and is therefore missing out on (approximately) £3000 towards her personal care - Do claim. You have paid for this over your working life. It is not means tested (i.e. not based on your income and assets). It is OK for her to "pay" you to care for her.

    You are only 59. Your state pension will not be payable until you are 66 (SPA - state pension age). I would be looking at what my outgoings are in order to inform my decision between options 2 and 3. Why only options 2 & 3?

    Option 1 reads like a fixed pension offering, and while the lump from your pension is highest, I think (note, think) that your pension would not increase beyond £1,000 a month, or £12k per annum. In six years time you may well not have enough to live on. NB unlike a DB option that will link to an inflator (maybe by a set %age, of maybe CPI or RPI (consumer or retail price index)

    If you need the capital sum of £72k (maybe to pay off a mortgage) this might be the option for you, but you might struggle on the lower monthly income. You say you intend to work again but you must ensure you have your personal circumstances covered. Another reason why you should claim the benefit to help while you are unable to work in order to look after your wife

    If you personally could manage without the lump sum, another question to consider before ruling out option 2 is one of inheritance. If you have children you want to provide for, taking a lump sum as well as income from your pension may be the route to go. As your wife will not be alive to take advantage of any dependent/partner benefits if your own life is not long and healthy, maybe this is something for you to consider. When you die, your DB pension would die with you, assuming your wife pre-deceases you and you do not remarry.

    You also have the £40k to consider. Your pension savings of £40k exceed the current limit* of £30,000 that would allow you to draw down (remove) this in cash (maybe over several years between retiring and SPA?), without you first taking advice (for a fee) from an IFA. - In your current circumstances you have said you do not want to think about this, so if you can manage without that capital, leave it for a year or two and rely on your DB pension plus the benefits your wife claims (!) to top it up. At the point you resolve what you are going to do with this, you could currently take 25% of it as a tax-free lump sum. Again*.

    *[That limit might change but the Chancellor is looking for income having sacrificed the self employed NI Contributions change last week - if I were a betting person, I would only look for this sort of sweetener in the Autumn Budget 2019 - when they are dangling temptation ahead of the next election - and there is discussion about him limiting tax-free removals in the future to fill that gap]

    There is no NI contribution on your pension when you begin to draw it but you will pay tax for income over £11,000 (£11,500 from April). That said, you will need to consider paying a NI contribution for the years you do not work between giving up work and SPA. If you take another job, you will pay normal Class 1 employee contributions but with your SERPS opt-out, you may need to maximise the years you have left to improve between Basic and single state pensions - (£119 vs £155 or somewhere between, based on current rates).

    I hope this helps a bit
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  • Linton
    Linton Posts: 17,115 Forumite
    Name Dropper First Post First Anniversary Hung up my suit!
    I dont see any evidence that Option 1 is for a fixed rate pension different to Options 2 and 3. The numbers would suggest that it's the same. However the OP should find out what the index linking arrangements are.
  • kidmugsy
    kidmugsy Posts: 12,709 Forumite
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    There is a fourth option. You could argue that a DB pension is of less value to a bloke who's lost his wife because the widow's pension rights are now worthless. You could therefore ask them to quote a Cash Equivalent Transfer Value and think about whether you should transfer out into a money purchase scheme. That, however, removes the investment risk and longevity risk from the shoulders of your scheme's trustees and puts them on your shoulders.
    Free the dunston one next time too.
  • paul_hannah
    paul_hannah Posts: 14 Forumite
    edited 20 March 2017 at 4:00PM
    Linton wrote: »
    Its not 100% clear to me what the options mean - are they quoted word for word from the documentation you were given? For example Option 2 doesnt say what the reduced pension is, perhaps its the same as Option 1.



    Very sorry if i made it unclear, here word for word !

    Option 1 Combined tax free lump sum of £83k
    includes pension savings of £41k
    Plus an annual reduced pension of £12k

    Option 2 Defined benefit tax free lump sum of £72k
    Plus a reduced annual pension of £10k
    Plus Pension savings of £41k

    Option 3 Full defined benefit pension of £14k
    Plus pension savings of £41k
  • Linton wrote: »
    I dont see any evidence that Option 1 is for a fixed rate pension different to Options 2 and 3. The numbers would suggest that it's the same. However the OP should find out what the index linking arrangements are.


    Thanks for reply, Option one is the only option that doesn't mention Defined benefit, and this concerned me as its all flashing lights pointing at the biggest lump sum, and most people in our firm have been drawn in by the big cash offer.
    All the three options are on a single A4 sheet, no explanations (unless you ask, and then wait an eternity for a reply).
  • kidmugsy wrote: »
    There is a fourth option. You could argue that a DB pension is of less value to a bloke who's lost his wife because the widow's pension rights are now worthless. You could therefore ask them to quote a Cash Equivalent Transfer Value and think about whether you should transfer out into a money purchase scheme. That, however, removes the investment risk and longevity risk from the shoulders of your scheme's trustees and puts them on your shoulders.

    Very true, i have asked them if they would consider offering me better terms as id be a single life policy, and pointed out that they were discriminating against being single, thus having me subsidise the married members of the scheme ( please forgive me as im still married, but, well you know what i mean!)
    They said they have no provisions for this, and i replied that you now have "common law partners" on the documentation, that wasn't there a few years back, but you had to amend things to be seen to be "political correct" but still waiting for a reply on that one
  • Suffolk_lass
    Suffolk_lass Posts: 9,332 Forumite
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    Linton wrote: »
    I dont see any evidence that Option 1 is for a fixed rate pension different to Options 2 and 3. The numbers would suggest that it's the same. However the OP should find out what the index linking arrangements are.

    I agree. My "I think" is based on the fact that options 2 & 3 specifically do mention defined benefit, therefore, it is not - as I said before, "I think".
    Save £12k in 2024 - #2 target is £5000 only £798.34 so far
    OS Grocery Challenge 2024 25.04% spent or £754.10/£3,000 annual
    I also Reverse Meal Plan on that thread and grow much of our own premium price fruit and veg, joining in on the Grow your own thread
    My Debt Free Diary Get a grip Woman
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