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  • FIRST POST
    • Scrumpy11
    • By Scrumpy11 10th Apr 19, 2:29 PM
    • 45Posts
    • 35Thanks
    Scrumpy11
    residential parking - Recieved PCN for not displaying my Permit
    • #1
    • 10th Apr 19, 2:29 PM
    residential parking - Recieved PCN for not displaying my Permit 10th Apr 19 at 2:29 PM
    Hi all,

    Could do will a little help.

    I have received a ‘Parking Charge Notice’ for parking behind my property of over 20 years. I was aware of the site being managed by a parking company but failed to take my permit out of the glovebox after working a night shift. The operator does have permission to operate on the land by my Housing Association.

    I received a PCN to registered keeper 9 days from alleged contravention. I admitted I was the driver but denied any contravention ever occurred for the following reasons:

    • The Contravention did not occur. In Jan, my vehicle: a '*************' was not parked at the location as stated by the parking operator. My vehicle was in fact parked behind my home of over 23 years: "Address hidden." The two addresses are completely different. They are separate carparks, with a six-foot fence dividing them (no through road), they are on separate roads wit separate post codes. Therefore, the PCN should be void, as I was not parked in the location as stated on the PCN. To get to one car park to another you would have to negotiate two separate roads, some 158 feet apart.

    The land owner has requested that the PCN be cancelled, the parking company are ignoring this.

    • The parking company are a limited company whom have obligations such as informing ‘Companies House’ if they change their address to which their company is registered. The parking company moved out of their address in January 2018. Yet, failed to inform companies House of the change when they updated their accounts in February 2018/2019. even signed two conformation statement. The Parking company are operating, issuing tickets from an address in which they no longer occupy which is illegal. The old address is even on the PCN.

    I have spoken to local residents and photographic evidence that they no longer occupy the address to which their company is registered to.

    • The signs displayed did not conform to current regulations. The sign displayed at the front of the scheme was their old company’s sign with a piece of paper stuck over old details. The size of the text was too small, not illuminated and displayed a company registration number which was not tiered to a current address of which the company occupy.

    • The land owner (housing association), Have signs larger in size and depicting larger text which have been displayed before I moved in in 1995. The main sign at the entrance to our scheme states (This carpark is for residents and visitors only), I had parked within the parameters of this sign as I am a resident. In order for CMS's signs to become enforceable, This older sign sign should have been removed.

    • I had parked within the confines of my primary contract (tenancy agreement- issued Dec 1995). The idea behind primacy is that a contract cannot be unilaterally altered by one party without the permission of the other. In the case of residential parking, the lease is the key document. I have unfettered rights to park in the carpark: "Address hidden" with no mention of permit or parking system. This cannot be changed or altered in anyway by the parking company, as in the case of "Link Parking v Mrs P: case No C7GF50J7."

    a) Link Parking V Mrs P - it was found that the Parking company could not override the tenants right to park requiring a permit.


    b) In Joseph V Homegaurd 2016, case no: B9GF09AR. It was established "Parking Eye v Bevis 2015 (UKSC67), Does not apply to residential parking. therefore, brings the penalty doctrine back into play.


    I have evidence that the sign at the entrance to the scheme does not comply to current regulations. Its a sign with the parking companies details stuck on with paper. My last recorded evidence was 12 March. Although the sign was changed on around the
    20th March 2019

    The parking company gave evidence to the IAS in the way of an 'image' of a sign and a sign in 'a van'. This was on the 08th March, neither signs were displayed at the scheme at the time of the alleged contravention. The main sign was changed around the 20th March to the sign which they falsely stated to the IAS was displayed at the time of the alleged contravention.

    The IAS/ IPC have ignored the fact that the evidence was false and insufficient, that the Company's registered address is no longer in use (which has to be displayed on the PCN)

    The matter is now with ZZPS...

    I appreciate any help you maybe able to offer.
Page 4
    • Castle
    • By Castle 22nd May 19, 2:25 PM
    • 2,289 Posts
    • 3,120 Thanks
    Castle
    So I attempted to serve a LBA to CMS. This was not served due to them not occupying the address to which they are operating from.

    do I carry on with court action, to this address? going for a default judgment. or

    Do I issue proceedings against the land owner, my landlord?
    Originally posted by Scrumpy11
    Did you send it to the registered office?
    • Fruitcake
    • By Fruitcake 22nd May 19, 2:41 PM
    • 39,779 Posts
    • 88,702 Thanks
    Fruitcake
    Did you send the LBA by any type of signed for service? If so, I suggest you send it again by first class post from a Post Office counter and obtain a free proof of posting. According to the Interpretation Act it is assumed to have been delivered after two working days.

    Since you will then have lawfully served the scammers notice of the LBA at their registered offices, you can then go ahead with the actual claim and may be able to get a default win followed by a default CCJ against them, just like many other scammers do.
    Alternatively they may have someone pick up mail from that address and you might get a response.

    Personally I would go ahead with your claim. However, you need to go through your LBA and do some tidying up. You jump from saying things like, you did this or didn't do that, then say, CMS did this or didn't do that. It needs t be consistent. You could put in a one liner explaining that by "you" this means "CMS" limited, then you can use "you" every time. Alternatively change it to "CMS" every time.

    You mention the DVLA CoP and KADOE, but it is a KADOE contract between the DVLA and the scammers; in other words the scammers agreement on how they will lawfully obtain keeper details.
    Somewhere you need to explain what the acronyms mean before referring to them only as an acronym. So, Keeper At Date Of Event (KADOE) contract, then KADOE contract thereafter.
    Last edited by Fruitcake; 22-05-2019 at 2:51 PM.
    I married my cousin. I had to...
    I don't have a sister.

    All my screwdrivers are cordless.
    "You're Safety Is My Primary Concern Dear" - Laks
    • Scrumpy11
    • By Scrumpy11 22nd May 19, 9:13 PM
    • 45 Posts
    • 35 Thanks
    Scrumpy11
    I sent the letter by Royal Mail, Special Delivery. I have requested for Royal mail to try and redeliver the letter... I was hoping this would be enough proof that I have done all I can to serve the letter.

    I will tidy up my letter and also send the letter as advised by Fruitcake tomorrow.

    Thank you all for your help and guidance
    • Coupon-mad
    • By Coupon-mad 22nd May 19, 9:23 PM
    • 73,405 Posts
    • 85,481 Thanks
    Coupon-mad
    Did you send it to the registered office?

    Wasn't a PO Box, was it (never send signed-for to a PO Box of course).
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT UNLESS IN SCOTLAND OR NI
    TWO Clicks needed Look up, top of the page:
    Main site>>Forums>Household & Travel>Motoring>Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
    • Scrumpy11
    • By Scrumpy11 22nd May 19, 9:25 PM
    • 45 Posts
    • 35 Thanks
    Scrumpy11
    Sorry...

    Yes, I sent it to the companies registered office... Although as we know, they have not occupied the address since January 2018.

    It was not a POBox, although it seems that cms are now running their company from one.
    • Scrumpy11
    • By Scrumpy11 23rd May 19, 6:51 AM
    • 45 Posts
    • 35 Thanks
    Scrumpy11
    Revised LBA
    This is the revised LBA

    I am writing this letter before claim in compliance with the Practice Direction on Pre-Action conduct with regards to the following matters which has arisen between us.

    Summary of Facts

    On the 25th January 2019 I had come home from a night shift. At approximately 0600hrs, I parked behind my home of 23 years, “***************"
    Unfortunately, I had not displayed a ‘valid permit to park’
    As I stated to my landlord back in 2007/2008. “I will display a permit out of courtesy. I do not agree or give my consent for a ‘permit’ to park at our residency.”

    I had finished a night shift, I was tiered and forgot to take the ‘permit’ out of my glove box. The ‘permit’ was normally displayed in a ‘tax disc holder and fixed on the inside of my window screen. Unfortunately, my vehicle had been written off in an accident outside work and I no longer had the Tax Disc holder.

    Upon returning to my vehicle several hours later, I noticed I had been issued an ‘Advanced Warning of Parking Charge Notice.’ This had been left under my Windscreen Wiper.

    On the 30th January I received a ‘Notice to Keeper’ alleging I had parked at “*************.’ This was not true, I do not live at this address.


    The PCN (invoice), was issued from the companies old ‘registered address.



    Reason for complaint

    1) Breach of my primary contract – Tenancy Agreement.
    1.1 I had parked within the confines of my primary contract (tenancy agreement- issued Dec 1995).
    1.2 The idea behind primacy is that a contract cannot be unilaterally altered by one party without the permission of the other. In the case of residential parking, the lease is the key document. I have unfettered rights to park in the carpark: "Winifride Court, Albert Road, Harborne, B17 0AN" with no mention of permit or parking system.
    1.3 This cannot be changed or altered in anyway by the parking company, as in the case of "Link Parking v Mrs P: case No C7GF50J7."


    Link Parking V Mrs P - it was found that the Parking company could not override the tenants right to park requiring a permit.

    1.4 Jopson and also Saeed v Plustrade Limited [2001] EWCA Civ 2011 which cites the well-established principle that 'a grantor shall not derogate from his grant' - i.e. in my simple terms, a landholder offering a right to 'peaceful enjoyment' to a resident and their visitors can't offer that on the one hand, take it away with the other.

    In Jopson V Homegaurd 2016, case no: B9GF09AR. It was established "Parking Eye v Bevis 2015 (UKSC67), Does not apply to residential parking. therefore, brings the penalty doctrine back into play.


    2) CMS’s Registered Address - ‘55 Leonards Road West, Lytham, St Annes, Lancashire, FY8 2PF.
    2.1 CMS moved out of the address to which their company is registered on the 23rd January 2018. Therefore, CMS are in breach of the ‘Companies ACT 2006, operating a company without a registered address.
    2.2 CMS are issuing and taking payments for parking charges from an address in which they no longer own/ occupy. This is Fraud, which is also against the Companies Act 2006.

    Therefore, CMS has no legal right to manage any scheme post 23rd January 2018, and any PCN’s issued from then should be classed as ‘invalid’ and any money taken should be classed as ‘fraudulently taken’ and refunded to the motorist.



    3) Signage (breaking regulations under Code or Practice and/or Keeper at Date of Event (Kadoe.)
    3.1 Signs which were/ are displayed were not upto current regulations.
    3.2 The entrance sign was poorly illuminated.
    3.3 The information the sign was barley readable as the text was too small.
    3.4 The sign was not made of the right material. The IPS’s ‘Code of Practice’ states, Signs should be constructed from material that is sufficiently robust to withstand normal external conditions. Signs must be professionally made and not hand-written, so it is immediately apparent to the motorist that they convey important information regarding the site upon which they are placed.” CMS’s sign was an old sign with a piece of paper stuck on to it, conveying text which is neither correct not upto standard as set in current regulations.
    3.5 CMS are using a premium number (0844), as a point of contact which is prohibited.
    3.6 CMS was purporting to be a member of a different Accredited Trade Association (ATA) in breach of the DVLA’s CoP and thus a further breach of their KADOE.

    Therefore, CMS has no legal right to manage our scheme post November 2013, and any PCN’s issued from then should be classed as ‘invalid’ and any money taken should be classed as ‘fraudulently taken’ and refunded to the motorist.
    CMS (UK) left the ‘British Parking Association (BPA) around November 2013 and Joined the IPC 03 February 2014 as CMS LTD.



    All of the above is in breach of the IPC’s CoP (Code of Practice) and 2.4 Breaches the DVLA’s CoP, and thus a further breach of their KADOE – Bringing a valid complaint of ‘Breach of the Data Protection Act 2018’. Therefore, CMS had no right to obtain ‘my personal data.’


    4) CMS’s Conduct
    4.1 CMS are issuing PCN’s from an address which they no longer own/ occupy.
    4.2 CMS gave false evidence to the IAS on what signs were displayed at the time of the alleged contravention.

    a. 25/01 – alleged contravention
    b. 08/03 - CMS gave evidence to the IAS, including what signs were displayed at the time.
    c. 12/03 - My last photographic image of the old sign carries the metadata, with the date/ time that the photo was taken - 12th March 2019 at 08:34.
    d. 20/03 – CMS changed the entrance sign. The sign now displayed is the sign which they said on the 8th March to the IAS, was displayed in January. This is some 12 days after they gave evidence and 54 days after the alleged contravention.

    ‘b’ and ‘d’ breaches the IAS/IPC’s CoP.


    5) Distress caused –
    5.1 CMS had fabricated evidence of which they would have committed perjury and gave evidence in a ‘Court of Law’ to secure a debt of which I did not owe.
    5.2 CMS instructed a ‘Debt’ Company to pursuit a debt of which I did not owe.
    5.3 The Debt company threatened me with court action.

    6) Breach of DPA -
    As a result, there is no legally-enforceable parking charge and no justification for CMS to pursue me. CMS, therefore, obtained my personal information without reasonable cause. This is a clear breach of data protection principles 1 and 2 of the Data Protection Act 1998 (DPA). CMS’s unreasonable and unlawful demand for payment is causing me significant distress and anxiety.

    What I am claiming from you

    I have calculated this sum


    Claiming for: Amount Reason:
    Breach of DPA £**** CMS was purporting to be a member of a different ATA in breach of the DVLA’s CoP and thus a further breach of their KADOE

    Furthermore, your company is operating from an address which they no longer own/ occupy.

    Therefore, CMS had no right to obtain my person details.

    Trespass £*** CMS had no legal right to touch my vehicle or put an ‘invoice’ upon it.
    Phone calls £** I had to make a call to the post offices depot at St Annes, chasing up the ‘cease and desist’ letter issued on
    Letters issued £** This is for 3 letters sent recorded delivery. I have also charged £10 per letter, for the time taken as well as delivery costs.
    Emails £*** This is for the numerous emails I have sent defending my claim, (I have charged £5 per email and capped it at 20). also, for the time taken researching and writing them.
    Distress £*** CMS fabricated evidence against me as to which signs were displayed at the time of alleged contravention.
    By instructing a ‘Debt Recovery’ Agent to recover the alleged debt, whom threatened me with court action.
    CMS being allowed to continue to operate despite my complaint and the evidence I have supplied.

    CMS are second operator instructed to out scheme that operate outside the ‘law’

    Total claimed: £**** Court costs and statutory interest maybe added.

    2) CMS have no fair right of appeals process, if actual evidence can be refused over virtual evidence with no right to review by the IPC. It appears that no mater what evidence is presented the Adjudicator will always favour the operator,

    Listed below are the documents on which I intend to rely in my claim against you:

    1) My Tenancy Agreement.
    2) PCN (invoice) you issued on the 30th January 2019. This shows an address of which your company is operating from.
    3) Documents which you have supplied Companies House.
    4) A document with images of the timeline of where your company is registered to, ‘55 Leonards Road West, Lytham, St Annes, Lancashire, FY8 2PF’
    5) The evidence you supplied the IAS regarding the alleged contravention. This will include what signs you alleged were displayed in January 2019
    6) An image of the actual sign which was displayed in January 2019. The sign did not conform to current regulations.
    7) Copies of my complaints to CMS, IAS/ IPC and my Landlord with their responses.
    8) The Companies Act 2006.
    9) The documents which I have requested from you.

    In accordance with the Practice Direction on Pre-Action Conduct I would request that you provide me with copies of the following documents:
    1) A copy of the contract you hold with the Landowner, giving you legal right to manage our scheme.
    2) Proof you own/ occupy ‘55 Leonards Road West, Lytham, St Annes, Lancashire, FY8 2PF’
    If you cannot provide proof, can you please explain why? If you no longer own/ occupy the address, then when did you move out?
    3) A list containing all PCN’s which have been issued at our scheme post 23rd January 2018. The PCN’s were issued illegally and any money obtained should be refunded to the motorist.
    4) A list of ALL PCN’s which have been issued by CMS from ‘55 Leonards Road West, Lytham, St Annes, Lancashire, FY8 2PF’ post 23rd January 2018. PCN’s were issued illegally and any money obtained should be refunded to the motorist.

    In closing, I would draw your attention to paragraphs 15 and 16 of the Practice Direction which gives the courts the power to impose sanctions on the parties if they fail to comply with the direction including failing to respond to this letter before claim.

    I look forward to hearing from you within the next 28 days.
    Should I not receive a satisfactory response to my letter within this time frame, then I anticipate that court action will be commenced with no further reference to you.

    Yours faithfully,
    Last edited by Scrumpy11; 23-05-2019 at 7:30 AM.
    • KeithP
    • By KeithP 23rd May 19, 12:20 PM
    • 15,234 Posts
    • 17,741 Thanks
    KeithP
    In my opinion, a Letter Before Claim should be succinct.

    Anything longer that one side of A4 is, imho, too long.
    .
    • The Deep
    • By The Deep 23rd May 19, 12:31 PM
    • 13,449 Posts
    • 13,802 Thanks
    The Deep
    I agree, far too many eggs in that pudding. It also needs numbered paragraphs.
    You never know how far you can go until you go too far.
    • Scrumpy11
    • By Scrumpy11 23rd May 19, 2:26 PM
    • 45 Posts
    • 35 Thanks
    Scrumpy11
    Thanks guys... Back to the drawing board.
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