Your browser isn't supported
It looks like you're using an old web browser. To get the most out of the site and to ensure guides display correctly, we suggest upgrading your browser now. Download the latest:

Welcome to the MSE Forums

We're home to a fantastic community of MoneySavers but anyone can post. Please exercise caution & report spam, illegal, offensive or libellous posts/messages: click "report" or email forumteam@. Skimlinks & other affiliated links are turned on

Search
  • FIRST POST
    • oxford_yellow
    • By oxford_yellow 29th Nov 17, 9:58 AM
    • 11Posts
    • 1Thanks
    oxford_yellow
    Bitcoins/Cryptocurrency
    • #1
    • 29th Nov 17, 9:58 AM
    Bitcoins/Cryptocurrency 29th Nov 17 at 9:58 AM
    whats people's views on Crypto Currency?

    Bitcoin is all over the news with massive gains in recent months, but no main broker seems to touch it.

    is it safe? not from view of price going up/down like stocks and shares but more security/legal? heard many horror stories of coins being stolen (plain text on computers?) when you sell - you have to advertise and wait for a bid, banks cancelling accounts as fraud etc...

    does many people trade in it or have views?
Page 5
    • TBC15
    • By TBC15 20th Mar 18, 3:56 PM
    • 788 Posts
    • 469 Thanks
    TBC15
    Nay - that ship has only just docked!

    Just wait and see what happens when Amazon starts accepting cryptocurrencies.
    Originally posted by pawlala
    In that case Amazon strong sell. Lunatics have taken over the asylum.
    • TBC15
    • By TBC15 20th Mar 18, 4:06 PM
    • 788 Posts
    • 469 Thanks
    TBC15
    As it wasn't intended as an investment vehicle in the normal sense, as my children are almost 17 and 15. It was for 'fun' and purely fun. The fact that the bitcoin has increased in it's 'value' is incidental. They could cash in, but it's now purely an exercise in watching it either grow or flop. They care little either way.
    Originally posted by NYM
    Bit like the telly tubbies, great entertainment for those of that mind set, but not really…..real.
    • adindas
    • By adindas 8th Jun 18, 6:35 PM
    • 3,888 Posts
    • 2,427 Thanks
    adindas
    Using revolut to exchange £/ Cryptocurrency (e.g BTC, ETH)
    I have unlocked Revolut Cryptocurrency features. I have seen it is quite handy.

    Is there any disadvantages if using Revolut compare to buying it from well establish such as coinbase and save it in your own ledger.

    Could This cryptocurrency be spent or exchange back to £ without minimum fee, etc ?

    Thanks
    • Qubit
    • By Qubit 8th Jun 18, 8:02 PM
    • 49 Posts
    • 11 Thanks
    Qubit
    Yes, major disadvantage. With Revolute you don't own it, they hold it for you. Golden rule: if you don't own the private keys you don't own it.
    • adindas
    • By adindas 10th Jun 18, 7:42 AM
    • 3,888 Posts
    • 2,427 Thanks
    adindas
    Yes, major disadvantage. With Revolute you don't own it, they hold it for you. Golden rule: if you don't own the private keys you don't own it.
    Originally posted by Qubit
    Thanks but I think this thing could be overcome to some extents with exchange that back to Major currencies, as at least you could withdraw it using your debit card or spend it, or transfer it to your current account. This make it ismple id you want to speculate.


    Also Revolut is UK company which need to follow UK regulation.


    What about exchange it back from crypto currencies to £, EU, $ or oher major currencies, ?

    How easy it is ?
    What will you lose during the exchange back process ??
    thanks again
    Last edited by adindas; 10-06-2018 at 7:45 AM.
    • bowlhead99
    • By bowlhead99 10th Jun 18, 8:40 AM
    • 8,864 Posts
    • 16,235 Thanks
    bowlhead99
    Thanks but I think this thing could be overcome to some extents with exchange that back to Major currencies, as at least you could withdraw it using your debit card or spend it, or transfer it to your current account. This make it ismple id you want to speculate.
    Originally posted by adindas
    That sounds ridiculous as a solution to someone who wants to speculate on the changing price of crypto over time.

    Let's say you have £5000-6000 or whatever the current price is, and want to buy and hold one bitcoin for a year in the hope of benefiting from the change in price of a bitcoin for a year because you think it's going to go up. Or you have £10,000 and want to buy and hold 2 coins for a year, or £1000 and want to buy and hold 0.2 coins for a year, whatever.

    With a normal online exchange you buy the coin and can withdraw it, look aftter it yourself, so you know you will still have it in a year's time even if the exchange you bought it from goes bust, has fraud, etc.

    As Qubit says, with Revolut you can't withdrsw the coins. You only 'virtually' own them - so you can transfer them to other people who have a Revolut account, or you can keep them in your own Revolut account, but you can't take them away and put them somewhere safe. Your interest in the coins is virtual and only Revolut have them - if they even bought them at all. They owe you the value of the coins at a point in time (less transaction fees). If the value of your £1000 or £10,000 investment goes up to £1500 or £15,000 but then Revolut fails, you could lose all that value (including the initial £1000 or £10000 you put in).

    So the problem is, you cannot get your hands on the coins to look after them yourself safely or do what you want with them (give them to other people outside the Revolut network, move them to another exchange, etc).

    You say this problem is 'overcome to some extents' by being able to convert the value to major currencies and withdraw that. But it isn't really, is it?

    For example let's say:
    - I put £5,000 into their platform today and use it to buy approximately one Bitcoin, and I want to own the Bitcoin for a year because I believe the £5,000-worth of Bitcoin which I bought at today's price will be worth £10,000 or even more in June 2019.

    - But if I leave the Bitcoin amount in their virtual account, I could lose it to fraud or failure of the Revolut business.

    - So I would like to withdraw my Bitcoins, for safekeeping during the one year while I'm waiting .

    - But they don't allow it, because it's only a virtual account and I don't actually own the Bitcoin, just a share of its value.

    - Your solution to overcome this problem is to exchange it back to major currencies: simply withdraw the £5000 as dollars or pounds or euro and then I have them in my pocket.

    So OK I'll follow your solution and see if it fixes my problem. I buy the bitcoin today and then sell it tomorrow for about the same price, and if I withdraw the resulting cash, I will have cash back in my pocket. But I won't have any bitcoin. So if bitcoin goes up in value from £5000 to £10000 over the course of the year, I won't get any of that value. If I want to transfer bitcoin to a friend or a supplier or to my account at another bitcoin exchange, I can't do it because I don't have any bitcoins. I sold the bitcoin as part of getting the major currencies to put back in my pocket.

    So the fact that you can sell your virtual bitcoins to get real currency and withdraw it, is not any kind of solution to someone wanting to buy and hold bitcoins to speculate on their price movement without having a major risk of losing all the bitcoins if the Revolut business collapses.

    Also Revolut is UK company which need to follow UK regulation.
    And they hopefully don't intend to suffer fraud or go bust. But pay attention to the risk warning at the bottom of the home page, which says, inter alia:

    Funds received by us in relation to cryptocurrency transactions will not be safeguarded (under the UK Electronic Money Regulations 2011) or covered by the Financial Services Compensation Scheme.
    Last edited by bowlhead99; 10-06-2018 at 8:44 AM.
    • planteria
    • By planteria 10th Jun 18, 9:27 AM
    • 5,114 Posts
    • 1,144 Thanks
    planteria
    In that case Amazon strong sell. Lunatics have taken over the asylum.
    Originally posted by TBC15
    i don't expect that to happen, but if it does then i shan't be selling either.
    • adindas
    • By adindas 10th Jun 18, 12:31 PM
    • 3,888 Posts
    • 2,427 Thanks
    adindas
    So the problem is, you cannot get your hands on the coins to look after them yourself safely or do what you want with them (give them to other people outside the Revolut network, move them to another exchange, etc).
    Originally posted by bowlhead99
    I am fully aware you do not have the money, just a virtual figure.

    But you could exchange it to major currencies in a a matter of seconds. When the money is in major currencies you could easily spend it or transfer it back to your AC.

    - Your solution to overcome this problem is to exchange it back to major currencies: simply withdraw the £5000 as dollars or pounds or euro and then I have them in my pocket.

    So OK I'll follow your solution and see if it fixes my problem. I buy the bitcoin today and then sell it tomorrow for about the same price, and if I withdraw the resulting cash, I will have cash back in my pocket. But I won't have any bitcoin. So if bitcoin goes up in value from £5000 to £10000 over the course of the year, I won't get any of that value. If I want to transfer bitcoin to a friend or a supplier or to my account at another bitcoin exchange, I can't do it because I don't have any bitcoins. I sold the bitcoin as part of getting the major currencies to put back in my pocket.

    So the fact that you can sell your virtual bitcoins to get real currency and withdraw it, is not any kind of solution to someone wanting to buy and hold bitcoins to speculate on their price movement without having a major risk of losing all the bitcoins if the Revolut business collapses.

    And they hopefully don't intend to suffer fraud or go bust. But pay attention to the risk warning at the bottom of the home page, which says, inter alia:

    Funds received by us in relation to cryptocurrency transactions will not be safeguarded (under the UK Electronic Money Regulations 2011) or covered by the Financial Services Compensation Scheme.
    Originally posted by bowlhead99

    I think I have not been clear when I said about speculation. When I mention about speculation, I am not referring to years, etc but I refer to exchanging it within weeks, months or in the extreme side day trading, although I myself will not consider a day trading.

    The advantage of doing it with Revolut is the speed of exchanging it is matter of second and once you get it in major currencies you could withdraw it easily. No need to sell like like when you own the crypto currencies in your own ledger.

    I might be wrong that is the reason why I am discussing it in this forum
    • Futuristic
    • By Futuristic 3rd Sep 18, 2:31 PM
    • 805 Posts
    • 408 Thanks
    Futuristic
    Personally, I use Bitcoin as I've already earned some coins and I am planning to get myself hardware wallet. Just discovered some info on the best bitcoin wallet reviews here . What's your experience with the hardware wallets?
    Originally posted by SamuelR
    https://www.ledger.com/products/ledger-nano-s
    https://trezor.io/

    Cant go wrong with either.
    • nameeta26
    • By nameeta26 12th Sep 18, 7:47 AM
    • 2 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    nameeta26
    Bitcoins have the high volatility in the market with high fluctuations very frequently. It is very risky to trade in it without any experience or skill. But those fluctuations helps to earn profits too.
    • markj113
    • By markj113 12th Sep 18, 12:33 PM
    • 207 Posts
    • 147 Thanks
    markj113

    I use the nano ledger S myself.


    Easy to use, secure and can handle multiple different coins at the same time.


    Does everything you need it too at a reasonable price.


    Always buy the wallet directly from the manufacturer to ensure it is secure and the software has not been tampered with.
    Last edited by markj113; 12-09-2018 at 1:07 PM.
    • justification
    • By justification 17th Sep 18, 10:46 AM
    • 1 Posts
    • 1 Thanks
    justification
    Beware primecrypto
    I intended to invest £200 in primecrypto but they said make it £250 then another told me to change the 250 and replace it with 300. I refused and kept to 250 and would use PayPal he just said ok put your visa card up to the screen and gullibly I did and he had a gadget that took my payment. I later found the crooks had taken 3 times the amount from my account (I had already told them I only had £400 in my account). When I complained on chat I found I was talking to the same small gang of crooks over and over again who told me if I gave them all my other details sent on photo (bank card, letters, drivers licence etc) to prove who I am they would sort it. But they cannot be trusted. PRIMECRYPTO are just a small gang of thieves
    with sophisticated equipment.
    • coyrls
    • By coyrls 17th Sep 18, 11:44 AM
    • 1,187 Posts
    • 1,285 Thanks
    coyrls
    You really think that they had a gadget that took a payment from your card when you held it up to your computer screen?
    • markj113
    • By markj113 17th Sep 18, 1:13 PM
    • 207 Posts
    • 147 Thanks
    markj113
    You really think that they had a gadget that took a payment from your card when you held it up to your computer screen?
    Originally posted by coyrls

    This person is obviously at the cutting edge of tech with a deep understanding of digital payment methods.



    Just the sort of person that should be investing in cryptocurrency
    • Futuristic
    • By Futuristic 17th Sep 18, 2:37 PM
    • 805 Posts
    • 408 Thanks
    Futuristic
    I intended to invest £200 in primecrypto but they said make it £250 then another told me to change the 250 and replace it with 300. I refused and kept to 250 and would use PayPal he just said ok put your visa card up to the screen and gullibly I did and he had a gadget that took my payment. I later found the crooks had taken 3 times the amount from my account (I had already told them I only had £400 in my account). When I complained on chat I found I was talking to the same small gang of crooks over and over again who told me if I gave them all my other details sent on photo (bank card, letters, drivers licence etc) to prove who I am they would sort it. But they cannot be trusted. PRIMECRYPTO are just a small gang of thieves
    with sophisticated equipment.
    Originally posted by justification
    https://www.fca.org.uk/news/warnings/maplewalk-ta-prime-crypto

    You can try talk to your bank, good luck. Maybe providing above link may help.


    Buy through a regulated site like https://www.coinbase.com instead who are one of the very few with FCA license.
    Last edited by Futuristic; 17-09-2018 at 2:42 PM.
    • Malthusian
    • By Malthusian 17th Sep 18, 4:04 PM
    • 5,954 Posts
    • 9,833 Thanks
    Malthusian
    Buy through a regulated site like https://www.coinbase.com instead who are one of the very few with FCA license.
    Originally posted by Futuristic
    This seems to be one of those times when "once bitten, twice shy" would be more appropriate.
    • ben501
    • By ben501 18th Sep 18, 6:54 AM
    • 544 Posts
    • 887 Thanks
    ben501
    You can try talk to your bank, good luck. Maybe providing above link may help.
    Originally posted by Futuristic
    Considering the technology we're dealing with here, surely placing the palm of their hand on the screen should be enough to contact whoever they need.


    put your visa card up to the screen and gullibly I did and he had a gadget that took my payment.
    Originally posted by justification
    • JustABit
    • By JustABit 30th Sep 18, 6:36 AM
    • 12 Posts
    • 0 Thanks
    JustABit
    So, being a person that likes to risk a little and also try something new I am looking forward to start my own cloud mining business but not quite sure if it is worth a shot. I've recently made some research on that topic and looked through some cloud mining services here but some points still seem unclear to me. How do they calculate their predictable profit and is this number guaranteed? Would gladly accept any advice if someone knows the answer.
    • bowlhead99
    • By bowlhead99 27th Mar 19, 7:50 AM
    • 8,864 Posts
    • 16,235 Thanks
    bowlhead99
    So, being a person that likes to risk a little and also try something new I am looking forward to start my own cloud mining business but not quite sure if it is worth a shot.
    Originally posted by JustABit
    The time to become a miner was before everyone else had the idea of renting computer power to become a miner. The gains that everyone has made in the past when they were one of only a few people doing it around the world, are no longer available.

    . How do they calculate their predictable profit and is this number guaranteed?
    Guesswork, and no. You may lose all the money you put in. It is not a regulated financial product, so they can make up any claims about returns that they like


    would gladly accept any advice if someone knows the answer.
    Think: if someone has a genuinely reliable and predictable profit making opportunity, why would they offer you a service where their cloud computing power mines bitcoins for you and gives you a good share of the profit? Why not make the predictable profit themselves, and reinvest all the profit into making more predictable profit for themselves?

    Answer, because selling you a service where you give them money, is more reliable income for them than the activity of actually doing the cloud mining.

    There are enough suckers in the world who have heard of large gains being made by miners, that they can get customers to give them the funding for the service. However, profit margin in mining is small, unpredictable, and there is not a huge amount to be made, which is why they want someone like you to show up and buy the service and give them your money. You may lose all your money without getting any real profits, of they go bust overnight, and they will not be losing sleep over your poor decision, but you will They are not offering the service to you out of love or altruism.

    Also:
    I've recently made some research on that topic and looked through some cloud mining services here but
    Cloud mining pro's site offering "Best Cloud Mining Services Overview" is hardly an unbiased view of the market, even if you've chosen to use it just as a starting point for researching the services. They will earn money for directing people to the services so are incentivised to lead you first to the ones who pay them the most. Actually the most successful and profitable miners that you'd want to team up with to make your fortune will not provide services to the public at all, they will simply get private investment and mine for themselves.

    As you can tell from the number of people who pop up here or on "review" sites with their links and ramping, it is incredibly difficult to get an impartial opinion anywhere, because everyone who tells you a service is good is likely to be doing it for their own vested interest. This could take the form of (e.g.) a referral fee, or simply the hope of more customer income driven to a service they use instead of a competitor that they don't use, in the hope that the service they had picked is slightly less likely to go bust; they may feel that if more customers start using that service there may be a little more chance of getting their money out rather than suffering a loss of some sort if/when there is a financial collapse or fraud at the service provider.
    Last edited by bowlhead99; 27-03-2019 at 8:46 AM.
    • WillGates
    • By WillGates 16th May 19, 6:33 PM
    • 10 Posts
    • 9 Thanks
    WillGates
    Bitcoin and Ethereum at it again.
    Up over 100% this year.
    Will we see a new all time high?
Welcome to our new Forum!

Our aim is to save you money quickly and easily. We hope you like it!

Forum Team Contact us

Live Stats

550Posts Today

4,997Users online

Martin's Twitter