TV Licence article Discussion

Cornucopia wrote: »

But I object to the concept that someone exercising their legitimate right to privacy in their own home is a "crank". It is that kind of lacklustre thinking that has got the BBC into this mess in the first place.

How is getting a letter or having a canvasser come to your house invading your right to privacy? Most people in this land have to deal with unwanted callers (salesmen, charity muggers etc.) and deal with them quite efficiently by saying "No" and closing the door - no letter writing required.

Someone who goes to a large amount of effort to prevent a visit from TVL, which is something extremely unlikely to happen, would arouse suspicion and be added to a list. I have a relative who kept getting 'reminders' for a long number of years and despite the continued threats of a visit never had a single one - I strongly suspect that those who get a visit are visited because they've got in touch with TVL and aroused suspicion.

The Beeb say you can exercise "WOIRA" verbally on the doorstep if you wish, this probably gets invoked even if you just use the words "sod off". So why bother provoke them in the first place? If you really fear contact with the outside world then add "No TV licensing canvassers" on your "No salesman, no religious callers" etc. sign next to your front door.

phoenix_w wrote: »

How is getting a letter or having a canvasser come to your house invading your right to privacy?

The rights in Article 8 are drawn quite broadly. Importantly, they apply to the State and State Agencies only. So salesmen are fine, but TVL are covered. And there's a good reason for that, which is because TVL aren't coming for tea. There have been hundreds (probably thousands) of false allegations made by TVL operatives, and they are sometimes hard to get resolved.

Someone who goes to a large amount of effort to prevent a visit from TVL, which is something extremely unlikely to happen, would arouse suspicion and be added to a list.

Very possibly, which is why I wrote my question the way I did: can I refuse TVL access without prejudice. In other words, if I truly have the right then it must be a right I can use without suffering negative consequences.

If you really fear contact with the outside world...

It isn't that. Fear of being set-up or harassed or harangued in your own home is not fear of the outside World.

There are those who do have a fear of the outside World, which is also their prerogative.

... then add "No TV licensing canvassers" on your "No salesman, no religious callers" etc. sign next to your front door.

Same as WOIRA.

phoenix_w wrote: »

How is getting a letter or having a canvasser come to your house invading your right to privacy?

It's hassle, if you tell them you don't have a need for a TV and that they won't get in without a warrant, yet they still knock on your door, that's clear harassment.

It's that simple.

I don't have DVLA knocking on the door to ask if I have a car, why is the TV licence so different.

At least the Tories say they are going to decriminalise this.

phoenix_w wrote: »

I can see what you and cornucopia are saying, I just think your reactions are OTT and almost unbelievable for rational people.

There is a principle involved, here. You may not agree that a householder ought to be able to exercise control over his own home within the Law, but that's how I feel about it. What's more, I'm pretty confident that that's what the Law says.

Where I live I get salesmen, jehovah's witnesses and charity muggers all the time. I just open the door, tell them to go away politely and get on with my life.

It's really not about the hassle. It's the threat of being set-up when you are completely innocent.

In several years of being legally licence free, I've yet to actually meet a TVL operative face-to-face. But the threat is still there, and the letters keep coming, too. Some of them are grossly offensive and have no place in the routine communication between a public authority and the public.

I don't actually believe people get "harassed" by TVL unless they start playing with them.

That may be true, but again, you either have the right to play with them or you don't. Clue: generally, you do.

If you're legit there's nothing to fear - tell them to bog off and should they decide to get a warrant or whatever just laugh it off - they probably spent more of their income trying to nab an innocent than they'd get off you if you actually paid 2+ years of the fee. Claiming that getting someone turn up at your door who you're absolutely free to turn away or a few pro-forma letters landing on your mat is "harassment" is just bull.

That's true enough. However, TVL simply mislead and lie to people. If you are not clued-up, it is way too easy to get taken in by it. I don't want that for my country, and I'm prepared to put in some effort to (a) help people who may find themselves at the wrong end of it all, and (b) try to get it "fixed".

Let me put the question again, this time directly to you: do I (should I) have the right to refuse access to TVL without prejudice.

The bottom line for me is that they are bullies, and someone needs to stand up to them. If we don't stand up to organisations that abuse or exceed their authority, then we only have ourselves to blame when they and their fellow bureaucrats take more and more liberties.

I want our public services including the BBC to be better, to have a better attitude towards serving the public and relating to us. The BBC's present approach is verging on kafkaesque and I'm not going to put up with it.

phoenix_w wrote: »

I can see what you and cornucopia are saying, I just think your reactions are OTT and almost unbelievable for rational people. Where I live I get salesmen, jehovah's witnesses and charity muggers all the time. I just open the door, tell them to go away politely and get on with my life. If I didn't watch telly, I'd do the same to someone working for TVL. "Harassment" would be if they knocked on every week, started trying to steal my cat or started posting dog poo through my letter box.

I don't actually believe people get "harassed" by TVL unless they start playing with them.

If you're legit there's nothing to fear - tell them to bog off and should they decide to get a warrant or whatever just laugh it off - they probably spent more of their income trying to nab an innocent than they'd get off you if you actually paid 2+ years of the fee. Claiming that getting someone turn up at your door who you're absolutely free to turn away or a few pro-forma letters landing on your mat is "harassment" is just bull.

Not sure what I do that has you thinking I'm OTT...I just don't answer the door to them, the harassment for me comes in when you have told someone you don't need their service yet they insist on calling and want acess to your home.

If I took a fancy to you, you turned me down, yet I kept knocking at your door and sending you letters, would you think it was so easy to dismiss that? All you have to do is put the letters in the bin and not answer the door.