is it worth joining a union?
Comments
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It's fine for all those saying that they have a good relationship with their employer and can negotiate their own pay rises etc, but there are many millions of people that don't and can't.
These millions of people are just fodder to their employers and beyond their immediate managers are just a payroll number.
I've working in the motor industry nearly all my 30 years of working life and have never been in a position where I can individually influence a pay deal or change of conditions.
Although I have never needed their help directly, and hope never have to, I will always be a member, just in case, and for all the other associated benefits that membership provides as well as the collective bargaining that they can bring to bear on pay etc.0 -
RichardD1970 wrote: »It's fine for all those saying that they have a good relationship with their employer and can negotiate their own pay rises etc, but there are many millions of people that don't and can't.
Well as I was one of those people who did mostly have good relations with their employers, I'd just like to point out that at no point have I suggested that unions shouldn't exist, or that people shouldn't join. I merely dislike closed shops when they existed.
I couldn't care less if my employees are or aren't union members, free world and all that.0 -
Well as I was one of those people who did mostly have good relations with their employers, I'd just like to point out that at no point have I suggested that unions shouldn't exist, or that people shouldn't join. I merely dislike closed shops when they existed.
I couldn't care less if my employees are or aren't union members, free world and all that.
Yes but the employees who arent want the same benefits as the employees who are without contributing anything . As I say they want something for nothing0 -
Yes but the employees who arent want the same benefits as the employees who are without contributing anything . As I say they want something for nothing
I'm afraid I don't always agree with your posts but I think you're spot on here.
I'm sure that certain individuals may be able to negotiate better T&Cs with their employers (this board is full of people moaning that they do the same job as "X" but have just discovered - somehow - that "X" is being paid 20% more - "is this legal?").
I'm a union fan but, like some other posters here, did not agree with a "Closed shop". (I'm assuming the OP doesn't even know what that means).
You're always free to join a union or not - but if you don't, I'm not sure that you are on any high ground if you are benefiting from T&Cs negotiated by union members. Which the OP doesn't seem to appreciate.0 -
Well as I was one of those people who did mostly have good relations with their employers, I'd just like to point out that at no point have I suggested that unions shouldn't exist, or that people shouldn't join. I merely dislike closed shops when they existed.
I couldn't care less if my employees are or aren't union members, free world and all that.
I'm a union fan but I agree with you about closed shops. You're posts are sensible on these and other boards. (A rare thing in itself!)
I just tend to agree with some of the other posters on here that it seems odd that so many employees want to benefit from union negotiated T&Cs but without joining a union (which apparently is pointless). Of course, other people take a risk that you don't have to.0 -
If you wish to be a parasite, your call. Your member colleagues must hold you in high esteem.
If a union wishes to negotiate higher wages for its members alone, then they're free to try, and non-members will have to accept that, or try negotiating individually.
However, if the union negotiates for all employers, whether union member or not, or accepts a pay settlement which does not distinguish between union member and non-member, then any "parasite" is one of the union's own making.
Still, they have always been as much a part of the problem as the solution.0 -
I've always had good relationships with my employer. Doesn't mean I d trust them to do the right thing in a TUPE, disciplinary or redundancy situation though.
I was given poor advice when I needed it because the union rep was very focussed on public sector rights and couldn't get his head round things being different in the voluntary sector. So I left. Always felt like the poor relation in a non unionised workplace. Not helped by infighting in the union about new community branches. Couldn't be doing with the politics of it all.
Having said that, when facing another potentially TUPE I decided it was still better to have the resources of a large organisation trying to fight my corner than having to do it alone. So unless they do something really silly, now I'm back in I'll be staying a member.All shall be well, and all shall be well, and all manner of things shall be well.
Pedant alert - it's could have, not could of.0 -
Manxman_in_exile wrote: »I'm a union fan but I agree with you about closed shops. You're posts are sensible on these and other boards. (A rare thing in itself!)
I just tend to agree with some of the other posters on here that it seems odd that so many employees want to benefit from union negotiated T&Cs but without joining a union (which apparently is pointless). Of course, other people take a risk that you don't have to.
Thank you for the compliment:o
It is a dichotomy and I'm not sure what the solution is. Unions negotiate for their members and the non union negotiate individually.....we both know that would be illogical!
If half the drivers at Bugs transport were in a union and a 2% pay increase was agreed, then the others could come to me individually, but it's very difficult to then pay them more or less without causing friction.
In comparison to equivalent haulage companies, we do well in terms of pay and generally creating the best environment we can and if all employers did the same and all employees behaved the best they could, everything would be easier. However pigs will probably fly first on both counts!0 -
Thank you for the compliment:o
It is a dichotomy and I'm not sure what the solution is. Unions negotiate for their members and the non union negotiate individually.....we both know that would be illogical!
If half the drivers at Bugs transport were in a union and a 2% pay increase was agreed, then the others could come to me individually, but it's very difficult to then pay them more or less without causing friction.
In comparison to equivalent haulage companies, we do well in terms of pay and generally creating the best environment we can and if all employers did the same and all employees behaved the best they could, everything would be easier. However pigs will probably fly first on both counts!
Yes, I understand. Insofar as you're an employer, I suspect you want to treat all of you're employees fairly and squarely - and that's to be admired. But I don't think all employers have your egalitarian point of view.
I'm retired from the public sector on a reasonable pension and was paid a reasonable wage for what I did (plus the pension and other benefits). I appreciate that I'm in a fortunate position and I understand that that was not down to my individual negotiating skills, but to what the unions were able to bargain collectively. That's why it was important to be in a union. It may very well be different now.0 -
ReadingTim wrote: »If a union wishes to negotiate higher wages for its members alone, then they're free to try, and non-members will have to accept that, or try negotiating individually.
However, if the union negotiates for all employers, whether union member or not, or accepts a pay settlement which does not distinguish between union member and non-member, then any "parasite" is one of the union's own making.
Still, they have always been as much a part of the problem as the solution.
I agree. But I think the union is trying to make it better for all employees, not necessarily those who contribute to it. Employers would prefer to negotiate with individual employees because the labour market puts employers in a stronger position. That's why (as I posted earlier) we have posters on here moaning about relative salary levels between themselves and others doing the "same job".
I worked most of my working life in the public sector and me and my colleagues were on various pay scales where we all knew what we did and what we were paid for it. I find it bizarre on some of the posts on this board where private sector employees don't know what their counterparts in the same organisation are being paid! And, indeed, are not allowed to know! And could be sacked for finding out!
So it seems to me all the cards are stacked in favour of the employer. Doesn't seem right to me...0
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