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  • FIRST POST
    • kpwll
    • By kpwll 18th Jul 14, 10:06 PM
    • 3,866Posts
    • 12,305Thanks
    kpwll
    stop/start
    • #1
    • 18th Jul 14, 10:06 PM
    stop/start 18th Jul 14 at 10:06 PM
    Can you please tell me if you can turn off or over-ride a stop/start facility on any/all cars with this function? Thank you.
Page 5
  • topdaddy
    NO don't fee him let him think he's right!.


    but we all know he's wrong.
    Originally posted by atrixblue.-MFR-.
    Use the quote button to make your posts clearer
    • motorguy
    • By motorguy 20th Jul 14, 6:24 PM
    • 19,744 Posts
    • 12,409 Thanks
    motorguy
    Really? Got a link?
    Originally posted by topdaddy
    Yup

    The x6 thread

    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=4930689&page=6&highlight=x6

    To fill everyone else in, some woman asked advice about a car she was buying. Turned out it was an X6. Of course the green eyed monsters came out - our friend TopDaddy being one of the - how the x6 was !!!! because it wasnt practical and how it was a failure and how BMW knew that - even though theres been a string of copycats and BMW have just went to the trouble of building a mk2 version.

    Of course TopDaddy here couldnt accept any other opinion and eventually stopped posting rather than concede he was wrong.

    I think the woman just left the thread in the end.
    Last edited by motorguy; 20-07-2014 at 6:30 PM.
    Life has never given me lemons.

    It has given me anger issues, anxiety, a love for alcohol and a serious dislike for stupid people, but not lemons.
    • motorguy
    • By motorguy 20th Jul 14, 6:31 PM
    • 19,744 Posts
    • 12,409 Thanks
    motorguy
    Use the quote button to make your posts clearer
    Originally posted by topdaddy
    Or you could concede you're wrong. Again.
    Life has never given me lemons.

    It has given me anger issues, anxiety, a love for alcohol and a serious dislike for stupid people, but not lemons.
    • motorguy
    • By motorguy 20th Jul 14, 6:33 PM
    • 19,744 Posts
    • 12,409 Thanks
    motorguy
    NO don't fee him let him think he's right!.


    but we all know he's wrong.
    Originally posted by atrixblue.-MFR-.
    Even topdaddy does, but he wont admit it.

    Queue tactics like
    • going on the attack
    • undermining people
    • changing the subject
    • distraction away from the point in hand
    Life has never given me lemons.

    It has given me anger issues, anxiety, a love for alcohol and a serious dislike for stupid people, but not lemons.
  • topdaddy
    Yup

    The x6 thread

    http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=4930689&page=6&highlight=x6

    To fill everyone else in, some woman asked advice about a car she was buying. Turned out it was an X6. Of course the green eyed monsters came out - our friend TopDaddy being one of the - how the x6 was !!!! because it wasnt practical and how it was a failure and how BMW knew that - even though theres been a string of copycats and BMW have just went to the trouble of building a mk2 version.

    Of course TopDaddy here couldnt accept any other opinion and eventually stopped posting rather than concede he was wrong.

    I think the woman just left the thread in the end.
    Originally posted by motorguy
    Its impractical and the reveiws and owners say so
    But most importantly FAIL!
    You reopen a thread a fortnight after it ended does not equate to "walking away from a thread". You really need that luck dont you.
  • topdaddy
    Even topdaddy does, but he wont admit it.

    Queue tactics like
    • going on the attack
    • undermining people
    • changing the subject
    • distraction away from the point in hand
    Originally posted by motorguy
    Going on the attack as in undermining what you say? Guilty as charged. For example re the x6 and the alledged "greeneyed monster" I suggested a x5 as an alternative, similar in cost and from the same marque, hardly a jealous statement, more practical advice.
    • gilbert and sullivan
    • By gilbert and sullivan 20th Jul 14, 7:05 PM
    • 3,162 Posts
    • 2,140 Thanks
    gilbert and sullivan
    Starving the troll could be the best thing chaps, though i've now hidden his posts as well.
    • F1F93
    • By F1F93 20th Jul 14, 7:09 PM
    • 364 Posts
    • 203 Thanks
    F1F93
    You started weakly and the that post went down hill from there. I refer you to post #24. Best of luck to you too next time, its surely needed.
    Originally posted by topdaddy
    Okay. So you've driven a few VAG cars. So you've used cars with start-stop, and still you're arguing that the heater doesn't work when off? Well then, either you're wrong, or your car's faulty.

    Now instead of arguing with each other and descending into petty namecalling, let's try and understand each other. Topdaddy, when you said this:

    Heat retained by passing an air flow over the coolant? the heater doesnt work when the engines off
    Originally posted by topdaddy
    what exactly did you mean by the HEATER doesn't work? As in, the fan (or blower) will continue to work and blow air out, but it will not be hot, or as in the fans themselves will cut out? Or something else?
  • topdaddy
    Okay. So you've driven a few VAG cars. So you've used cars with start-stop, and still you're arguing that the heater doesn't work when off? Well then, either you're wrong, or your car's faulty.

    Now instead of arguing with each other and descending into petty namecalling, let's try and understand each other. Topdaddy, when you said this:



    what exactly did you mean by the HEATER doesn't work? As in, the fan (or blower) will continue to work and blow air out, but it will not be hot, or as in the fans themselves will cut out? Or something else?
    Originally posted by F1F93
    Name calling where name calling is due. the heater (clues in the name) will not heat. The fans will turn(running off the battery) but the heater will not warm up(either itself or the cabin air).
    • F1F93
    • By F1F93 20th Jul 14, 7:24 PM
    • 364 Posts
    • 203 Thanks
    F1F93
    Name calling where name calling is due. the heater (clues in the name) will not heat. The fans will turn(running off the battery) but the heater will not warm up(either itself or the cabin air).
    Originally posted by topdaddy
    I thought as much, but wanted to be clear. Well, as has been posted before, on every car I've ever driven, whether stop start or not, there is residual heat that gets blasted out for a couple of minutes even when the engine is off. In the same way that, after turning off the air con, the air remains cold for a minute or so, the fans will continue to blow out hot air if they were set to hot. Obviously it will cool down eventually, but not immediately - in the same way that a cup of tea will not cool down instantly.


    The difference between "normal" cars and "stop-start" cars is that the latter will restart itself when needed to ensure the cabin stays at the correct temperature.

    Which of these two do you disagree with?
  • topdaddy
    I thought as much, but wanted to be clear. Well, as has been posted before, on every car I've ever driven, whether stop start or not, there is residual heat that gets blasted out for a couple of minutes even when the engine is off. In the same way that, after turning off the air con, the air remains cold for a minute or so, the fans will continue to blow out hot air if they were set to hot. Obviously it will cool down eventually, but not immediately - in the same way that a cup of tea will not cool down instantly.


    The difference between "normal" cars and "stop-start" cars is that the latter will restart itself when needed to ensure the cabin stays at the correct temperature.

    Which of these two do you disagree with?
    Originally posted by F1F93
    I disagree with the theory that the heater will blow out hot air. I believe you may have assumed that the heater is on, possibly to maximum, prior to the engine stopping. However the heater not being on and then switch off the engine and then switching on the heater(fan and temp control) will not result in a warm toasty delightful environment.
    • neilmcl
    • By neilmcl 20th Jul 14, 7:30 PM
    • 13,926 Posts
    • 10,406 Thanks
    neilmcl
    Are you always this rude or only when surpassed?
    Originally posted by topdaddy
    The heater wont work like that, it would be stupid to think it would. Your not smart enough for me to talk to any more
    Originally posted by topdaddy
    What are you saying about being rude. sigh.
  • topdaddy
    What are you saying about being rude. sigh.
    Originally posted by neilmcl
    Its a simple enough question, one that could be asked of me too and Id answer honestly
    • IanMSpencer
    • By IanMSpencer 20th Jul 14, 7:52 PM
    • 1,480 Posts
    • 1,090 Thanks
    IanMSpencer
    Name calling where name calling is due. the heater (clues in the name) will not heat. The fans will turn(running off the battery) but the heater will not warm up(either itself or the cabin air).
    Originally posted by topdaddy
    I think you are assuming that there is no circulation from the engine block to the heater so that the heater empties of heat more or less immediately.

    As I mentioned, Mercedes have been producing cars for a long time that can circulate water around between the engine block and the heater without the engine running. The C class allowed the fan to run for up to 40 minutes after the ignition was switched off (the recirculation button doubled as the switch for the fan to run with the ignition off). In winter, there was significant heat coming out for some time. I don't believe there was any active circulation so presumably there is some sort of bypass to the pump that allows the circulation of the water under typical passive circulation of a hot water system. The heater in the C class was basically fitted under the very small glove box, so towards the top of the engine, so thermal circulation should be quite possible.

    So, even without stop start, cars have been designed to run heaters with the engine not running. It is clearly possible to do, and stop/start makes it more necessary to do so.

    Could you explain why you think it is impossible to transfer residual heat within the engine and water circulation system into the radiator matrix? Anyway, it does on a current Mercedes C Class BlueEfficiency that I own.

    Reading elsewhere a quote from Mercedes (that notes that the heater circuit is separately controlled from the main radiator) says " Thanks to intelligent control, the heating and entertainment systems remain operating during the stop phase for maximum comfort, as does the automatic climate control."
    Last edited by IanMSpencer; 20-07-2014 at 8:06 PM.
    • motorguy
    • By motorguy 20th Jul 14, 7:55 PM
    • 19,744 Posts
    • 12,409 Thanks
    motorguy

    I disagree with the theory that the heater will blow out hot air. I believe you may have assumed that the heater is on, possibly to maximum, prior to the engine stopping.
    Originally posted by topdaddy
    No, you assumed it wouldnt be on! The original context was if someone had a heater on and the car went into stop start, would they get cold. The clear answer is no they wouldnt because the car would restart.

    IF the car was in stop start mode and you put the heater ON, it would restart if needed to generate heat.


    However the heater not being on and then switch off the engine and then switching on the heater(fan and temp control) will not result in a warm toasty delightful environment.
    Originally posted by topdaddy
    Yes it will because the car will restart itself (assuming it stopped in the first place via stop start.
    Life has never given me lemons.

    It has given me anger issues, anxiety, a love for alcohol and a serious dislike for stupid people, but not lemons.
    • DKLS
    • By DKLS 20th Jul 14, 8:02 PM
    • 12,761 Posts
    • 21,519 Thanks
    DKLS
    Once you pass the ludite stage, you wonder why other cars don't have it, it seems starnge to be sat at traffic lights for 2 mins with the engine running unnecessarily. In a manula I understand the car has to be in neutral, however it restarts as soon as the clutch is depressed, , some cars the footbrake has to be held on, others as like an auto, as soon as the accelerator is touched the vehicle restarts, I have not come across a situation where it is best disabled yet.
    Originally posted by DUTR
    If it was beneficial technology I could accept the luddite argument, but when I had a merc c class and the wives mini the stop start tech added what I considered an unnecessary delay to moving off, Hence the tech has been permanently disabled on our current cars.

    The only benefit is some green benefits which I couldn't give a fig about I care more about the health of my engine and auxiliaries.
  • topdaddy
    No, you assumed it wouldnt be on! The original context was if someone had a heater on and the car went into stop start, would they get cold. The clear answer is no they wouldnt because the car would restart.

    IF the car was in stop start mode and you put the heater ON, it would restart if needed to generate heat.



    Yes it will because the car will restart itself (assuming it stopped in the first place via stop start.
    Originally posted by motorguy
    Why would it be on
    yeah heaters dont work that way then
    • motorguy
    • By motorguy 20th Jul 14, 8:34 PM
    • 19,744 Posts
    • 12,409 Thanks
    motorguy
    Why would it be on
    yeah heaters dont work that way then
    Originally posted by topdaddy
    Are you not on the same planet as everyone else, let alone not being on the same wavelength?

    So, the original scenario was, driving along to school to pick up grandson, with heater already on. Park car but keep car running. In this case the stop start would kick in and knock the car off. After a couple of mins, once all the latent heat had dispersed from the heater matrix, the car would not be able to maintain the required cabin temperature and would restart, thus recirculating hot water back to the heater matrix.

    Even IF you take the opposite scenario, whereby the heater isnt on, then when the car knocks off and you put the heater on and the car will start again if necessary.

    Why is this so difficult for you?

    I can understand that maybe you're a bit obtuse and thats ok, but its the arrogance that you seem to think you have in some way got a higher level of knowledge on this that WE are not grasping - yet you have made no attempt to relay that to us, other than to say "heaters dont work that way"

    So what way DO car heaters work, if they dont work "that" way?
    Last edited by motorguy; 20-07-2014 at 8:38 PM.
    Life has never given me lemons.

    It has given me anger issues, anxiety, a love for alcohol and a serious dislike for stupid people, but not lemons.
    • motorguy
    • By motorguy 20th Jul 14, 8:36 PM
    • 19,744 Posts
    • 12,409 Thanks
    motorguy
    If it was beneficial technology I could accept the luddite argument, but when I had a merc c class and the wives mini the stop start tech added what I considered an unnecessary delay to moving off, Hence the tech has been permanently disabled on our current cars.

    The only benefit is some green benefits which I couldn't give a fig about I care more about the health of my engine and auxiliaries.
    Originally posted by DKLS
    I have never noticed any delay on the bmw or vw one - by the time your foot is on the clutch and the car in gear, the car has long since restarted.
    Life has never given me lemons.

    It has given me anger issues, anxiety, a love for alcohol and a serious dislike for stupid people, but not lemons.
  • topdaddy
    Are you not on the same planet as everyone else, let alone not being on the same wavelength
    So, the original scenario was, driving along to school to pick up grandson, with heater already on. Park car but keep car running. In this case the stop start would kick in and knock the car off. After a couple of mins, once all the latent heat had dispersed from the heater matrix, the car would not be able to maintain the req in some way got a higher level of knowledge on this that WE are not grasping - yet you have made no attempt to relay that to us, other than to say "heaters dont work that way"

    So what way DO car heaters work, if they dont work "that" way?
    Originally posted by motorguy
    STOP generalising. You not WE.
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