Pensions from two countries

eastcorkram · 4 June 2018 at 7:55AM

I know this has been done to death on here, so apologies in advance!
My NI record shows as 28 full years, 7 more years to contribute, and 16 incomplete years. The incomplete ones are when no NI was paid at all. I was living and working in Ireland for all of those 16 years. For all that time in Ireland, I was working full time and paying full PRSI.

Now, those years in Ireland, according to some, entitle me to a partial pension. It's worked out on an average number of contributions.

If I continue to pay for another 7 years in the UK, then I'm due to get full UK pension, even with the missing 16 years.
So do I get this, PLUS a partial one from Ireland?

I've read everything I can find on it, form both government sites, and still unsure. Would love to hear from anyone who has actually got to retirement age, and has a history of enough years to get full UK pension, and a partial one form another EU country!

Brynsam · 4 June 2018 at 8:26AM

Yes. See the final paragraphs of this helpful article: https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/abroad/i-ve-moved-back-to-ireland-in-retirement-can-i-transfer-my-pension-1.3399189 written earlier this year.

eastcorkram · 4 June 2018 at 8:56AM

Thank you for that link. That's interesting.
Even on the minimum pro rata payment, and my rough calculations should get me the next level up from that, this would make quite a difference to my income in retirement.

bostonerimus · 4 June 2018 at 6:27PM

Generally you can get state pensions from multiple countries if you qualify. There might be reduced benefits, it all depends on the country. If you are a UK resident you'd have to pay UK tax on any Irish pension. My situation is that I have 35 years of NICs and 20 years of contributions into the US system. When I reach retirement age I'll get state pensions from both countries and I'll only have to pay tax on them in the US. It might be a good idea to check in with the Irish pension office to make sure they have up to date info on you and ask how you can apply. I've kept in contact with the foreign NIC office in the UK and they have been helpful in answering questions over the years.

eastcorkram · 4 June 2018 at 6:44PM

Yes. I've been in touch with the relevant department in Ireland. I've also had them send me my record of contributions. I've never actually asked them if they'll pay it

. But going by the tables on their site, they should do.
It does seem odd though. Take a made up example.
Twins, born in the UK. Both work for 50 years. One does all 50 in the UK. Gets full UK pension. The other does 35 years in UK, and 15 somewhere else, and gets full UK pension and a partial one from the other place.
It would be good in my case, if that's what happens. It would be good to know for definite. It might even change my plans. But what I don't want to happen, is to rely on it happening, and then finding out in 7 years time, that it's not.

bostonerimus · 5 June 2018 at 4:30AM

eastcorkram wrote: »

It would be good in my case, if that's what happens. It would be good to know for definite. It might even change my plans. But what I don't want to happen, is to rely on it happening, and then finding out in 7 years time, that it's not.

Ask the relevant Irish department. The thing with state pensions is that they are often not proportional to earnings. Sometimes there are bilateral social security agreements and there might be benefits reductions based on domestic rules.

eastcorkram · 16 June 2018 at 2:11PM

Still none the wiser on this really, despite being in Ireland again last week on a visit. I had an appointment at the local Intreo centre, like a social welfare office.
In theory, I have enough payments in, to get a partial pension. You need a minimum of 520 (10 years).
I have 887.
But they just said they didn't know if I'd get anything, if I was getting full UK state pension, which I will.
They also said the rules could change at any time, and for example, the government might change the minimum to 1000 contributions. Also said that brexit could have an effect, even in my case, where it's all pre brexit.
So, none the wiser!

xylophone · 16 June 2018 at 3:21PM

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/living-in-ireland#pensions

https://www.gov.uk/international-pension-centre

I wonder whether a call to IPC would throw any light.

ATC111 · 17 August 2018 at 4:24PM

eastcorkram wrote: »

I know this has been done to death on here, so apologies in advance!
My NI record shows as 28 full years, 7 more years to contribute, and 16 incomplete years. The incomplete ones are when no NI was paid at all. I was living and working in Ireland for all of those 16 years. For all that time in Ireland, I was working full time and paying full PRSI.

Now, those years in Ireland, according to some, entitle me to a partial pension. It's worked out on an average number of contributions.

If I continue to pay for another 7 years in the UK, then I'm due to get full UK pension, even with the missing 16 years.
So do I get this, PLUS a partial one from Ireland?

I've read everything I can find on it, form both government sites, and still unsure. Would love to hear from anyone who has actually got to retirement age, and has a history of enough years to get full UK pension, and a partial one form another EU country!

I'm in a similar situation. When are you due to reach retirement age? From 2020 the
average contributions method of calculation will change to Total Contribution Approach which is currently 40 years so in your case you would be entitled to 16/40ths (if retirement age is post 2020).

You will be entitled to claim contributory pensions from both jurisdictions based upon your contribution record.

There is an apparent anomaly in that the Irish pension rules will not allow concurrent contributions in two EU member states whereas the UK has no issue with this and actually requires proof of living and working abroad in order to make UK voluntary contributions.

eastcorkram · 17 August 2018 at 5:19PM

Are those figures talking about the Irish side of things? The 16/40 bit?
I was told the rules were being changed, but not exactly what was changing. I don't think they knew themselves.
My contribution record from the UK should be full. Reach the age 2025.

FatherAbraham · 18 August 2018 at 8:51AM

eastcorkram wrote: »

Still none the wiser on this really, despite being in Ireland again last week on a visit. I had an appointment at the local Intreo centre, like a social welfare office.
In theory, I have enough payments in, to get a partial pension. You need a minimum of 520 (10 years).
I have 887.
But they just said they didn't know if I'd get anything, if I was getting full UK state pension, which I will.
They also said the rules could change at any time, and for example, the government might change the minimum to 1000 contributions. Also said that brexit could have an effect, even in my case, where it's all pre brexit.
So, none the wiser!

I can't believe how long this thread has meandered on without anyone mentioning the relevant European Economic Area social security agreement with respect to state pensions.

Your UK qualifying years will count towards achieving any minimum threshold for an ROI state pension under that agreement.

Some basic details can found here, although they're from a UK perspective, the agreement in reciprocal:
https://www.gov.uk/new-state-pension/living-and-working-overseas

You may wish to consider additional voluntary contributions in ROI, if possible, but remember that under the EEA agreement, voluntary contributions may only be made in one country (for the purposes of calculating pensions entitlement under EEA rules).

Note that if a country's rules before consideration of the EEA reciprocal agreement would give you a higher state pension, then you get that higher pension.

Pensions from two countries

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