IMPORTANT: Please make sure your posts do not contain any personally identifiable information (both your own and that of others). When uploading images, please take care that you have redacted all personal information including QR codes, number plates and reference numbers.
CEL county court claim letter - defence advice needed
Esperanto
Posts: 10 Forumite
Hi all,
I have just received an official county court claim letter for a parking charge – the claimant is Civil Enforcement Ltd (I can see from some other posts on this forum they’re one of the usual suspects). I am the registered keeper – although the car was scrapped months ago – and I have no intention of paying and will defend it.
The letter is about a parking charge for exceeding the free time period at a private car park in late 2017. The letter says ANPR cameras, as well as manual patrols, are used to identify cars but I haven’t received any letters containing any photos or any actual evidence.
The letter refers to it as a PCN and the claim is well over £200, including interest, a court fee and a legal representative’s cost.
Previous to the claim letter, CE passed this to ZZPS and then QDR Solicitors.
Judging by what I’ve read on here – the newbies FAQs and some similar cases, here’s my plan:
• Acknowledge the service asap on MCOL following the instructions given on the newbies thread (the pdf linked on Dropbox on there) – basically leave the defence box blank like CouponMad and RedX say on ‘Civil Enforcement Ltd - County Court Claim Form’ thread (8 Mar 2016)
• Make no contact directly at all with Civil Enforcement
• Use the defence example on the thread ‘Civil Enforcement Limited County Court Claim 2018’ posted by ajtravel on 5 March, edit it as relevant to my case
• Post my defence on here and hopefully get approved by some of the experts on here
Is that okay?
Couple of questions – apologies if they have been addressed elsewhere:
• Civil Enforcement not owning the car park anymore seems to have been used as a defence previously (although that’s probably pre-court claim stage) – is there any way I can check whether they do or shall I assume they do as they are listed as owner on the court letter?
• I’m not familiar with the rules and regs about signage. I’m unfamiliar with the car park but can go and check – is it worth doing so? I can see some useful stuff on newbies thread so can follow that but surely that means I have to go to the car park and check the signage? Happy to do so if it could make the difference in this case
• No mention of Mr Schwartz – presumably I should edit that bit out of my defence. Is he long gone now?
Any other advice welcomed. Thanks – learnt so much from this forum already.
I have just received an official county court claim letter for a parking charge – the claimant is Civil Enforcement Ltd (I can see from some other posts on this forum they’re one of the usual suspects). I am the registered keeper – although the car was scrapped months ago – and I have no intention of paying and will defend it.
The letter is about a parking charge for exceeding the free time period at a private car park in late 2017. The letter says ANPR cameras, as well as manual patrols, are used to identify cars but I haven’t received any letters containing any photos or any actual evidence.
The letter refers to it as a PCN and the claim is well over £200, including interest, a court fee and a legal representative’s cost.
Previous to the claim letter, CE passed this to ZZPS and then QDR Solicitors.
Judging by what I’ve read on here – the newbies FAQs and some similar cases, here’s my plan:
• Acknowledge the service asap on MCOL following the instructions given on the newbies thread (the pdf linked on Dropbox on there) – basically leave the defence box blank like CouponMad and RedX say on ‘Civil Enforcement Ltd - County Court Claim Form’ thread (8 Mar 2016)
• Make no contact directly at all with Civil Enforcement
• Use the defence example on the thread ‘Civil Enforcement Limited County Court Claim 2018’ posted by ajtravel on 5 March, edit it as relevant to my case
• Post my defence on here and hopefully get approved by some of the experts on here
Is that okay?
Couple of questions – apologies if they have been addressed elsewhere:
• Civil Enforcement not owning the car park anymore seems to have been used as a defence previously (although that’s probably pre-court claim stage) – is there any way I can check whether they do or shall I assume they do as they are listed as owner on the court letter?
• I’m not familiar with the rules and regs about signage. I’m unfamiliar with the car park but can go and check – is it worth doing so? I can see some useful stuff on newbies thread so can follow that but surely that means I have to go to the car park and check the signage? Happy to do so if it could make the difference in this case
• No mention of Mr Schwartz – presumably I should edit that bit out of my defence. Is he long gone now?
Any other advice welcomed. Thanks – learnt so much from this forum already.
0
Comments
-
there are no "defence templates" on this forum at all
there are "examples" of bespoke CEL defences on this forum, which you could adapt accordingly, although personally I would look at recent ones , especially any honed by member BARGEPOLE or some other "regular" on here
ie:- do not look at "old" threads , except for general advice
remove anything not relevant or no longer relevant, so adapt and hone the proposed defence draft
read what the BPA CoP says about signage and charges etc
read what POFA2012 says about NTK and charges etc
read a dozen CEL threads and see what they have said and been advised
yes get pics of signage etc for later on , nearer the court date
the Land Registry will help you find out landowner details, for a small fee
assume that CEL do not own the land
read the recent honed defences by member BARGEPOLE
post the POC and DATE OF ISSUE of your MCOL form below0 -
No mention of Mr Schwartz – presumably I should edit that bit out of my defence. Is he long gone now?Please note, we are not a legal advice forum. I personally don't get involved in critiquing court case Defences/Witness Statements, so unable to help on that front. Please don't ask. .
I provide only my personal opinion, it is not a legal opinion, it is simply a personal one. I am not a lawyer.
Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.Private Parking Firms - Killing the High Street0 -
Hi both - very useful. I've acknowledged on MCOL. I'll do all the stuff you've recommended over the next couple of days (sorry, also changed wording of post - meant 'examples', not 'templates') but here's the info requested by Redx:
- Issue date 11 Oct, so I make that defence has to be in by 13 November as that is 33 days later (plan on getting it in well before that)
- Checked Land Registry - CEL does not own the land
-PoC:
Claim for monies relating to a Parking Charge for parking in a private car park managed by the Claimant in breach of the terms + conditions (T+Cs). Drivers are allowed to park in accordance with the T + Cs of use. ANPR cameras and/or manual patrols are used to monitor vehicles entering + exiting the site.
Debt + damages claimed to the sum of £XXX.XX
Violation date: XX/XXX/2017
Time in: XX:XX Time out XX:XX
PCN ref:XXXXXXXXXXX
Car registration no.: XXXXXXX
Car park: - XXXXXXXXXXXXXX
Total due XXX.XX
(Ref:[CEL website address] or Tel:01158225020)
The Claimant claims the sum of XXX.XX for monies relating to a parking charge per above including 11.25 interest pursuant to S.69 of the County Court Claims Act 1984
Rate 8.00% pa from the dates above to - 10/10/18
Same rate to Judgement or (sooner) payment
Daily rate to Judgement 0.04
Total debt and interest due- XXX.XX0 -
- Issue date 11 Oct, so I make that defence has to be in by 13 November as that is 33 days later (plan on getting it in well before that)
With a Claim Issue Date of 11th October, and having done the Acknowledgement of Service in a timely manner, you have until 4pm on Tuesday 13th November 2018 to file your Defence.
Plenty of time to produce a top class Defence, but don't leave it to the last minute.
When you are happy with the content, your Defence should be filed via email as described here:
1) Print your Defence.
2) Sign it and date it.
3) Scan the signed document back in and save it as a pdf.
4) Send that pdf as an email attachment to CCBCAQ@Justice.gov.uk
5) Just put the claim number and the word Defence in the email title, and in the body of the email something like 'Please find my Defence attached'.
6) Log into MCOL after a few days to see if the Claim is marked "defended". If not chase the CCBC until it is.
7) Wait for your Directions Questionnaire and then re-read post #2 of the NEWBIES thread to find out exactly what to do with it.0 -
What is the total sum they are claiming 250+ or 350+0
-
Hi. Cost is 250+0
-
Hello all,
Thanks for the advice so far - really helpful. Here's my draft defence. Went for something concise(ish) and went first person as suggested on a thread on the Newbies FAQs by Bargepole but am open minded. Hopefully it's broadly there but advice and tweaks welcome.
I am XXXXXX, the Defendant and was the registered keeper of vehicle XXXXXXX in this matter when the claim was issued.
I deny I am liable for the entirety of the sum claimed for each of the following reasons:
1. The Claim Form issued on XXXXXXX by the Claimant – Civil Enforcement Limited – was not correctly filed under The Practice Direction as it was not signed by a legal person but signed by a Civil Enforcement Limited (Claimant’s Legal Representative)
2. This Claimant has not complied with pre-court protocol. The Claim form Particulars were extremely sparse and divulged no cause of action nor sufficient detail – saying vaguely that the Claim is for “monies relating to a parking charge in breach of Terms + Conditions”. The Claim form Particulars did not contain any explanation of the alleged contract between me and the Claimant, any evidence of contravention or photographs. An explanation of the alleged contract has never been provided to me.
a) There was no compliant Letter before County Court Claim under the Practice Direction.
b) This is a speculative serial litigant, issuing a large number of identical 'draft particulars'. The cut-and-paste Particulars contain very little information.
c) I therefore ask the Court to strike out the claim as having no reasonable prospect of success as currently drafted.
3. The Claimant has added unrecoverable sums to the original parking charge.
The Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4, at Section 4(5) states that the maximum sum that may be recovered from the keeper is the charge stated on the Notice to Keeper, in this case £100. The claim includes an additional £70, for which no calculation or explanation is given, interest and court fees – making the overall claim more than £250. It is believed that the employee who drew up the paperwork is remunerated and the particulars of claim are templates, so it is not credible that £50 'legal representative’ costs were incurred. I deny the Claimant is entitled to any interest whatsoever.
4. According to the Land Registry the land in question is not owned by the Claimant. The Claimant is therefore put to strict proof that it has sufficient proprietary interest in the land, or that it has the necessary authorisation from the landowner to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment through litigation.
b) In the absence of proof I submit that the Claimant was committing an offence by displaying their signs and therefore no contract could have been entered into between the driver and the Claimant.
5. This case can be distinguished from ParkingEye v Beavis [2015] UKSC 67 (the Beavis case) which was dependent upon an undenied contract, formed by unusually prominent signage forming a clear offer and which turned on unique facts regarding the location and the interests of the landowner. Strict compliance with the BPA Code of Practice (CoP) was paramount and Mr. Beavis was the driver who saw the signs and entered into a contract to pay £85 after exceeding a licence to park free. None of this applies in this material case.
In summary, the Claimant's Particulars disclose no legal basis for the sum claimed, and the Court is invited to dismiss the claim in its entirety.0 -
Defence in the first person?
Did Bargepole write that?
Please can you say exactly where?0 -
-
Defence in the first person?
Did Bargepole write that?
Please can you say exactly where?
Hi,
I'm taking that from:
"If your defence relied on inadequate signage and / or contractual issues, it's easier to make those arguments if you were the driver at the time".
Bargepole's comment on 23 Oct on 'Gladstone Solicitors Parking Claim' posted on 18 Oct 18 by Why_Always_Me.
To be fair it doesn't say 'write in first person' and may refer to a very specific scenario so I may have taken too literally. Happy to use 'the Defendant' instead as that's what nearly all on here do. In fact it's completely separate isn't it? Sorry if that was misleading.0
This discussion has been closed.
Categories
- All Categories
- 343.1K Banking & Borrowing
- 250.1K Reduce Debt & Boost Income
- 449.7K Spending & Discounts
- 235.2K Work, Benefits & Business
- 607.9K Mortgages, Homes & Bills
- 173K Life & Family
- 247.8K Travel & Transport
- 1.5M Hobbies & Leisure
- 15.9K Discuss & Feedback
- 15.1K Coronavirus Support Boards