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  • FIRST POST
    • diamond dave
    • By diamond dave 14th Feb 18, 3:29 PM
    • 597Posts
    • 361Thanks
    diamond dave
    Dimplex Quantum storage rads
    • #1
    • 14th Feb 18, 3:29 PM
    Dimplex Quantum storage rads 14th Feb 18 at 3:29 PM
    Posted this elsewhere: Hoping to replace my old outdated storage heaters(3) in a large house. The reviews have been mixed and having just visited a friend who has just had them installed, I am not that impressed and he seems to think that they are not that efficient. Anyone got any thoughts on these storage heaters? Are they as efficient as they claim? Any leccies out there who have any thoughts on these things? Thanks.
Page 1
    • CashStrapped
    • By CashStrapped 14th Feb 18, 3:53 PM
    • 1,293 Posts
    • 725 Thanks
    CashStrapped
    • #2
    • 14th Feb 18, 3:53 PM
    • #2
    • 14th Feb 18, 3:53 PM
    What makes you think your current storage heaters are outdated?

    If your current storage heaters perform OK, and there is nothing wrong with them and you are using the controls correctly, you will likely see little benefit with swapping like for like.

    The savings will not be enough to recoup the outlay. So doing it purely for efficiency reasons is a waste of time.

    However, if your current heaters are undersized (3 in a large house sounds too few). Then you may want to add new ones or replace them for an appropriate output for the property.

    I have three (3kw heaters) in a small flat.

    A 3kw Quantum would cost nearly £1000. So for three or more than three, you might as well explore the option of installing central heating (if that is even an option)
    Last edited by CashStrapped; 14-02-2018 at 4:32 PM.
    • matelodave
    • By matelodave 14th Feb 18, 4:21 PM
    • 3,616 Posts
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    matelodave
    • #3
    • 14th Feb 18, 4:21 PM
    • #3
    • 14th Feb 18, 4:21 PM
    A storage heater is just a heap of blocks to store heat, a heating element or two and a thermostat, so it really matters not how old they are, they all do the same job except that newer ones may be a bit prettier and have better insulation

    There's not much to go wrong and they are cheap and easy to repair so it's difficult to see how a Quantum can be any better than a basic storage heater.

    As electric heating is effecively 100% efficient you need the same spec'd Quantum as any other storage heater to get the same amount of heat out of it - if you put less in, then you'll get less out - it's not rocket science.

    You have to do heat loss calculations to work out the correct size of heater for the space you are heating. If you dont store enough heat then they won't do the job.

    The only real benefit I can see from a modern storage heater is that it might store the heat for a bit longer than an older one, so might manage to retain it's heat until later in the day. But unless you feel you want the boost heating capability of a Quantum (which will use peak rate leccy) then I can't see why you'd buy them.
    Last edited by matelodave; 14-02-2018 at 4:24 PM.
    Love makes the world go round - beer make it go round even faster
    Look after our planet - it's the only one with beer
    • blimeyharri
    • By blimeyharri 14th Feb 18, 5:20 PM
    • 4 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    blimeyharri
    • #4
    • 14th Feb 18, 5:20 PM
    • #4
    • 14th Feb 18, 5:20 PM
    All the advice I've been given says that the life span of the older style storage heaters is a bit pants.

    Have you thought about infrared? Cheaper to run no matter what tariff you're on. Which is probably a good thing given that Economy 7/10 could be disappearing in the near future....
    • matelodave
    • By matelodave 14th Feb 18, 5:53 PM
    • 3,616 Posts
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    matelodave
    • #5
    • 14th Feb 18, 5:53 PM
    • #5
    • 14th Feb 18, 5:53 PM
    Dunno where you've got your info from but there are plenty of 0-30 year old storage heaters still going strong and they are cheap and easy to repair.

    Infra red doesn't use off-peak energy (unless you stand in front of it during the night) and will consume the same amount of leccy and cost the same to run as any other peak rate heater to produce the same amount of heat.
    You may feel it's effect in a different way but it wont save you money unless you only have it on for short periods and stand in front of it while it's on.
    Love makes the world go round - beer make it go round even faster
    Look after our planet - it's the only one with beer
    • diamond dave
    • By diamond dave 14th Feb 18, 9:17 PM
    • 597 Posts
    • 361 Thanks
    diamond dave
    • #6
    • 14th Feb 18, 9:17 PM
    Dimplex Quantum heaters
    • #6
    • 14th Feb 18, 9:17 PM
    thanks for all replies. House is rented to a single person with 3 children. She is eligible for a grant to replace these old credas which are 30 years old at least. They work fine but from April 1st I cannot relet the property if the EPC is lower than "E" so it would make sense to do something now to meet these ratings and should these break down I will have no choice as under LOT20 regulations all heaters have to comply with these new regs. I am told these heaters are the best thing since sliced bread - but not everyone likes sliced bread!
    • Richie-from-the-Boro
    • By Richie-from-the-Boro 14th Feb 18, 10:27 PM
    • 6,390 Posts
    • 4,801 Thanks
    Richie-from-the-Boro
    • #7
    • 14th Feb 18, 10:27 PM
    • #7
    • 14th Feb 18, 10:27 PM
    - life span of NSH is about a maintenance free 100 years
    - infra is 'core rate' and is about 30% more expensive than NSH
    - TOU tariffs disappearing is between very very unlikely and never

    Welcome to MSE.
    Disclaimer : Everything I write on this forum is my opinion. I try to be an even-handed poster and accept that you at times may not agree with these opinions or how I choose to express them, this is not my problem. The Disabled : If years cannot be added to their lives, at least life can be added to their years - Alf Morris - !!!8476;
    • Richie-from-the-Boro
    • By Richie-from-the-Boro 14th Feb 18, 10:52 PM
    • 6,390 Posts
    • 4,801 Thanks
    Richie-from-the-Boro
    • #8
    • 14th Feb 18, 10:52 PM
    • #8
    • 14th Feb 18, 10:52 PM
    Quantum are the single only NSH solution replacement to qualify under LOT20, they are not better in one area than older types but are not necessary, not a cost effective swapout and will do almost nothing to improve the EPC. Insulation curing heat loss will deal with EPC. Quantum will improve both heating and comfort levels .. .. .. at a huge initial up front outlay and an ongoing weekly increase in energy input costs.

    A fully structured Quantum install is an excellent NSH system but in a poorly insulated dwelling just boosts heat / comfort values by automatically switching on its forward facing expensive core-day rate radiative heating element on.
    Disclaimer : Everything I write on this forum is my opinion. I try to be an even-handed poster and accept that you at times may not agree with these opinions or how I choose to express them, this is not my problem. The Disabled : If years cannot be added to their lives, at least life can be added to their years - Alf Morris - !!!8476;
    • Cardew
    • By Cardew 14th Feb 18, 11:10 PM
    • 27,384 Posts
    • 13,403 Thanks
    Cardew
    • #9
    • 14th Feb 18, 11:10 PM
    • #9
    • 14th Feb 18, 11:10 PM
    All the advice I've been given says that the life span of the older style storage heaters is a bit pants.

    Have you thought about infrared? Cheaper to run no matter what tariff you're on. Which is probably a good thing given that Economy 7/10 could be disappearing in the near future....
    Originally posted by blimeyharri
    An infrared heater produces EXACTLY the same amount of heat, for the same consumption of electricity, as any other electrical heater.

    As said above, any storage heater is essentially a pile of bricks heated by electrical elements. Age doesn't affect their efficiency in that they also produce EXACTLY the same amount of heat, for the same consumption of electricity, as any other electrical heater - including Quantum heaters.
    • matelodave
    • By matelodave 15th Feb 18, 8:42 AM
    • 3,616 Posts
    • 2,244 Thanks
    matelodave
    I'd doubt that upgrading storage heaters will actually improve your EPC much whereas improving insulation and installing other energy saving measures or changing the heating system entirely will.

    It's worhwhile putting some effort into establishing what is the most cost effective way of improving your EPC rating and not just lashing out on stuff that seems like a good idea.

    We spent loads when refurbing our bungalow, including replacing storage heaters with an air source heatpump and underfloor heating and managed to get it up from a G to a D.
    Love makes the world go round - beer make it go round even faster
    Look after our planet - it's the only one with beer
    • blimeyharri
    • By blimeyharri 15th Feb 18, 9:09 AM
    • 4 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    blimeyharri
    Took my primary information from The Green Age - I had questions about old storage heaters and they sent me the below:
    The first option is to replace your storage heaters with fan assisted storage heaters. These are more efficient as they can retain their charge for longer as well as providing great temperature control. This obviously allows you to still take advantage of Economy 7/Economy 10. I should note at this point that Economy 7/Economy 10 relies on base load energy generation, which is maintained by technologies being rapidly overtaken in the UK by newer, renewable sources. Therefore the tariff basis on which a storage heater saves money may, in a few years time, cease to be an option.

    Another issue that may arise is the variation in upfront price – new fan-assisted storage heaters are about £500 + for each one you replace, going up to £700-£900 for the Quantum range, so costs may become a consideration. With storage heaters, you are also never going to be able to have complete, real-time control over temperature. This means that they may not be the most comfortable option available.

    Rough cost of a unit of useful heat: £0.15 (providing you are on Economy 7)



    The next option is to go for Infrared Heating Panels, These panels don’t heat the air like conventional heating systems (even radiators heat by convection, which is warming of the air). They instead emit far infrared, which travels unimpeded from the panel until it hits a solid object (you, the couch, the walls, your gerbil, etc), which absorbs the infrared and then warms up. The benefits of this over convection heating are numerous, with health, efficiency and style all being included. As they don’t require the circulation of air, Infrared Heating Panels are perfect for those who suffer with allergies. The infrared also boosts circulation and provides a near instant heat. These panels are very popular in Germany and Austria and are now growing in popularity here in the UK. The panels start at about £180 – a far bit cheaper than storage heaters.

    Rough cost of a unit of useful heat: £0.15 (provided you are not on Economy 7)


    What do you reckon??
    • blimeyharri
    • By blimeyharri 15th Feb 18, 9:12 AM
    • 4 Posts
    • 3 Thanks
    blimeyharri
    But they assume that you're only using the stored energy acquired during low-tariff times. As soon as you run out of that and start requiring power from the grid you're being charged way more.

    I guess it really depends on your tariff as to which is the best option, I just thought I'd play devils advocate!
    • matelodave
    • By matelodave 15th Feb 18, 10:50 AM
    • 3,616 Posts
    • 2,244 Thanks
    matelodave
    They are wrong in the first para, the cost of stored heat is about 7-8p/kwh as it uses off-peak leccy whereas peak rates are around 15p a unit so you'lll be paying twice as much for the same amount of heat with infra red.

    I'm guessing that they've got a vested interest in Infra Red heating - yup, have a shufti at their EcoStore.

    I find in interesting that most of these so called Eco heaters (and I include Quantum) tend to advocate undersized heaters with an extra element to provide additional peak rate heating when they run out.

    I'm not really sure how that equates to Eco because although an undersized heater wont use as much energy, it will be on for longer and probabbly wont warm the room enough either
    Last edited by matelodave; 15-02-2018 at 11:22 AM.
    Love makes the world go round - beer make it go round even faster
    Look after our planet - it's the only one with beer
    • Richie-from-the-Boro
    • By Richie-from-the-Boro 15th Feb 18, 12:51 PM
    • 6,390 Posts
    • 4,801 Thanks
    Richie-from-the-Boro
    Look a heavily taxpayer funded climate-change evangelist organisation pumps out relentless 'Downing St nudge theory' to change the behaviour of the great unwashed and make us all do their bidding because the UK will miss its legally binding carbon targets.

    GOV don't care about the size of your leccy bill just their emissions per person reduction, the green lobby all advocate the same infra on core rate - and people fall for this “impartial research” outcome from the £122mpa funded EST - powerful thing this 'nudge theory' isn't it !
    Disclaimer : Everything I write on this forum is my opinion. I try to be an even-handed poster and accept that you at times may not agree with these opinions or how I choose to express them, this is not my problem. The Disabled : If years cannot be added to their lives, at least life can be added to their years - Alf Morris - !!!8476;
    • Cardew
    • By Cardew 15th Feb 18, 4:59 PM
    • 27,384 Posts
    • 13,403 Thanks
    Cardew

    I'm guessing that they've got a vested interest in Infra Red heating - yup, have a shufti at their EcoStore.
    Originally posted by matelodave
    Any organisation with 'Green' in their name are beyond reproach! Vested interest? - the very thought!
    • halogen
    • By halogen 2nd Mar 18, 12:53 PM
    • 116 Posts
    • 148 Thanks
    halogen
    I have 2 semi-working storage heaters in a 3 bedroom house. (Well 3 but I never use the 3rd as I can't reach the dials and they need pliers to turn anyway) I assume they date from the 80s when it was built. I did get the local green deal people to assess the house when I bought it and I was advised that it wouldn't be worth getting more insulation. I also have no hot water as even the plumber couldn't work out how to make the boiler come on. I have an electric shower and there is no gas main.
    Most of the year I have the heating off completely. It generally goes on from Nov to April and generally it's ok but there's maybe 10 days during the winter when it's slightly chilly. My electricity bill is currently £105/month. No idea how many KW/hr that is as I'm with a rubbish supplier and can't work out how to make their website tell me.
    I'm was thinking of getting proper central heating installed but I don't think I could take the chaos of having people in putting pipes under the floor etc, so now I'm leaning towards replacing one of the storage heaters as they both seem to have only on/off modes now and I am too short sighted to read the dials anyway so can only get adjusted once a week when someone with better eyesight is round to visit.
    Ideally I'd wanr something with some kind of phone control, even better if I could turn it up by phone 1/2 hour before I get home :-)

    Does anyone have any advice or recommedations.
    Oh and getting tradesmen where I live is a nightmare. I had to contact 5 local plumbers last time I needed work done and none of them got back to me. In them end I had to ask someone from 3 hours away who took pity on my plight. I say this as any solution that involved 'ask your local heating engineer' is going to fall at the 1st hurdle.
    thanks in advance
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